The Music Business Buddy
A podcast that aims to educate and inspire music creators in their quest to achieving their goals by gaining a greater understanding of the business of music. A new episode is released each Wednesday and aims to offer clarity and insight into a range of subjects across the music industry, all through the lens of a music creator for the benefit of other music creators. The series includes soundbites and interviews with guests from all over the world together with commentary and clarity on a range of topics. The podcast is hosted by award winning music industry professional Jonny Amos.
Jonny Amos is a music producer with credits on a range of major and independent labels, a songwriter with chart success in Europe and Asia, a senior lecturer in both music creation and music business at BIMM University UK, director of The SongLab Ltd and the author of The Music Business for Music Creators.
www.jonnyamos.com
The Music Business Buddy
Episode 4: Navigating the Sync Licensing World with Bryan Hinkley
Unlock the secrets to sync licensing and elevate your music's potential in the competitive landscape of TV, film, games, and advertisements. We'll guide you through the essential elements of synchronization, from understanding the true essence of your songs to the critical role of feedback in shaping how your music is perceived. Learn why correctly labeling your music is vital for matching search criteria and how proper clearance can make or break your chances of landing that coveted placement. Discover the free resources available on www.jonnyamos.com to manage these clearances effortlessly.
Our special guest, Bryan Hinkley of Gratitude Sound, lends his expertise on the ever-evolving music sync market. Bryan shares his journey through a decade of increased opportunities and intense competition, revealing the importance of forging strong relationships with clients and artists. Hear his insights on the role of technology in streamlining the process for music supervisors and why maintaining genuine quality is more crucial than ever. Bryan also sheds light on practical lessons in music supervision—adaptability, copyright law, and handling compromises in commercial projects. Plus, understand the profound impact a hit song can have when aligned with a brand, from the perspective of a seasoned industry professional.
https://www.gratitudesound.com
The Music Business Buddy. The Music Business Buddy Hello, big, warm welcome to everybody. You are listening to the Music Business Buddy, with me, johnny Amos, podcasting out of Birmingham in England. I am the author of the book the Music Business for Music Creators, available in hardback, paperback, ebook format. I'm also a music creator with credits on a variety of major and indie labels, as either a writer or as a producer. I'm also a senior lecturer in music creation and music business. Wherever you are, whatever you do, please consider yourself welcome to this podcast and to a part of this community. I'm here to try and educate and inspire music creators from all over the world in their quest to achieving their goals by understanding the music business.
Speaker 1:Okay, so today we're talking about sync licensing. So, you know, before we get into the kind of heavy duty stuff, uh, let's just go right back to basics and just define what we are referring to here. So, uh, you know, sync is an abbreviation of synchronization, right? So it relates to the business of attaching uh recordings of songs or music to television, uh to film, to games, to ads, to any other use that will, you know, will aid a visual source in media. So songs play a pretty important role in aiding a lot of content. So this could apply to you know, anything from sort of, you know, a romantic scene in a film to a fashion documentary, to a new video game that needs music for an immersive experience, whatever it might be. It'll be lots and lots of different things, ok, so there's a real art form, right, in kind of understanding.
Speaker 1:You know what is the essence of a song. You know, if we're going to pitch a song for a potential placement through a sync agent or through whoever, we have to understand what the role of the song is. And that can be really difficult. You know, love is is blind, as they say. If you're too close to a song, you can't always see it for what it is. Perhaps you've written a song and you think, oh, it's quite downbeat and introspective and dark, but actually it isn't. It's actually perceived as something far more kind of joyful, uh, and prosperous. Perhaps that's because the darkness kind of came from the mood that you were in when you wrote the song rather than what it became once you recorded it, right. So it's very difficult for music creators to kind of see sometimes what the essence of the song is. This is why it's useful sometimes to play your music to different people and go right, what feeling are you getting from this? Or how could this aid? A visual, or what kind of visual could this aid? You know, it's really really, really useful to kind of play your music to different people and get their opinions on that.
Speaker 1:The reason this is important is because one of the first steps perhaps in gaining sync placements is by working with sync agents, which I'll come on to a little bit later on. But one of the things that can happen is you pitch off your song to a sync agent and they come back and they say, hey, this is great. You know, can you fill in this form? And this form is you know some kind of metadata document and this form and this form is you know some kind of metadata document, and they ask you to fill in all sorts of details about the type of song that it is, the themes, the primary genres, the secondary genres and you kind of go um, I'm not sure about that or, worse still, you get it wrong. So you kind of go well, you know this track is this particular genre, but actually it's more kind of that over there. But because you've labeled it wrongly, it means that when people search for it, they'll listen to your music and they'll go uh, this isn't what it says it is, and then you don't get a placement. So it's really, really important to know what you're selling.
Speaker 1:The next thing to think about is clearance. Now, this can be quite difficult to handle, but also quite simple when you know what you're doing. So let's just simplify this little bit. You're not going to be able to license a recording into a visual product until every aspect of both the song and the recording of that song have clearance. Now, what that really means is that there's total transparency in writing from any party that's involved with the song or the recording. So that could be a songwriter, it could be a musician that's played on the recording, it could be a studio engineer or a producer. It could be anybody that has been involved with the creative or recording process of the song or recording.
Speaker 1:So everybody needs to be able to kind of sign off on something. There's all sorts of documents, by the way, that you can download for free and use from my website that's johnnyamoscom. I'm not selling anything when I say that, by the way, they're all free. I do this because I want to help people to be able to understand how to achieve things right. So, uh, j-o-n-n-y-a-m-o-s johnnyamoscom, if you go on there, click on the music industry resources and you'll see a bunch of documents on there that you can use for producer clearance, performance clearance. That's what it relates to.
Speaker 1:Right is getting those things signed off. So, for example, if somebody has played I don't know a guitar for you and they go, oh, you know, you don't have to pay me, like I'm your friend, like that's lovely, but it's also very, very, very problematic because you need to. You need that person, that guitar player, to sign off on the clearance of that which you can use on one of those documents that I just mentioned, to sign off on the clearance of that which you can use on one of those documents that I just mentioned. But in there it might be that you're asking that guitar player to kind of you know waiver their permission for use, in which case, you know, maybe they want payment or maybe they don't, but in either case, you know, it's good to be able to get that clearance in writing. It will be expected of you from a sync agent.
Speaker 1:Ok, so let's talk about preparing the pitch. So it's good to be able to be ready, and I mean really, really ready, so that if you get some interest, that comes back quite quickly and it can and does happen. Um, then you want to be able to be ready to be able to go okay, right, I've got clearance on that, I can do this, I can do that, I can send you this. Uh, here's my files. Here's a, here's a link that you can click and download these files. They've got a 60 second edit, a 30 second edit, even a 15 second edit bang, bang, bang. Very, very professional. Like you would be a sync agents dream if you have that kind of stuff ready. So it's about having that ready before you even begin the pitch, and then it's about who you're gonna pitch it to.
Speaker 1:Now, this will involve some research. Now, I know that might sound really boring, but it's true and it pays dividends. So it's good to think about. You know, who are you trying to connect this music to? If you've got an idea of where your music fits, it gives you a significant advantage and it's also something that's going to make you far more appealing to those that you work with. So, um, you know, just to think about this for a moment, we've got.
Speaker 1:You know, I mentioned sync agents earlier. So you know they're possibly the most sort of accessible music professionals out of everybody that's in this list, because you know it's their job to build a library right that can be accessed by music users, who can then identify songs that they wish to license. So sync agents are brilliant people to work with, very, very knowledgeable most of the time. So that might be, you know, know, even just a quick google search sync agents, or sync agents in my country you know that will get you on the right kind of path to then look at. Okay, right, oh yeah, let's have a look at their website, or or let's have a look at what their presence is like on social media, which doesn't matter as much, by the way, because a lot of their the action that they're doing is not public facing as such, but, um, but it's always good to then have a look at their website and go, let's have a look at their submission policy, because they'll probably like to receive music in a particular way, and that could be files, it could be links.
Speaker 1:A lot of people often ask me oh, how do people like to receive music? And I go well, there's not a standard answer to that. Some people don't like to receive mp3s because it clogs up their inboxes. Some people just like to have links. It depends, but you can find out by looking at the submission policy on a sync agent's website. There are also what I refer to as broker agencies.
Speaker 1:Now there's a growing number of music sync companies that aim to connect music creators with opportunities for their music by kind of collecting, collating leads, if you will, music users and that could be music supervisors or ad agencies and making them accessible to independent music creators on a kind of subscription basis. Now, there's nothing wrong with that as such. You know, there's a lot of companies out there that do things like that, that do it very, very, very well, and so if there is a subscription service, you think right. I don't know anybody. Let me sign up to this service. Let's see what I can learn, let's see if I can get anything out of it. Give it a go. You know, if it's really, really expensive, it's out your budget. Don't do it.
Speaker 1:There are other ways but music broker agencies. They are a good option to sometimes work with. Of course, there are music publishers. Now there's a range of avenues that a music publisher can exploit, including, you know, tv companies that create programs for both cable and network channels. There's film production companies, ad agencies, video game companies. All of those companies can be dealt with on a collective level by a music publisher. So, working directly with the music publisher and pitching your songs to them and saying, hey, this is where I think this can fit, do you see, uh, the potential in this? Shall we work together? That's a great way of approaching a music publisher. And there are music supervisors. Wow, now this is the golden ticket, right? This is, they are undeniably the holy grail of the sync business.
Speaker 1:Music supervisors are effectively responsible for selecting and sourcing music for a variety of different projects for television and film. They are the top chain gatekeepers and are highly influential in their positions. For much of the time, now, um, it's very difficult to work directly with them. It's not impossible. Nothing's impossible in this world, is it right? But, uh, it does happen. Some people do work directly with music supervisor, and good for you if you have that access point. Maybe you know somebody or you've listened to somebody on a podcast and you go, let me bang them an email. You know what's the worst that can happen, right, right, they can ignore you. Don't be afraid of that. That's okay, you know, but perhaps one of the best ways to work with music supervisors is not directly with them, because they get harassed by music creators every single day. I know some high-level A&Rs that can't even get responses from music supervisors, so they're very, very difficult. And music supervisors so they're very, very difficult and they usually filter their approaches to how they receive communication and how they operate. So you know, perhaps the way to work with a music supervisor is not directly with them, but through an agent instead.
Speaker 1:Another option is to work with ad agencies, digital agencies, branding specialists, often referred to, perhaps, as creative agencies. They are harder to work with, generally speaking, because they deal not necessarily always directly with music creators, but it can and does happen. I know plenty of people that have done this. So you know, these are effectively companies that design and execute marketing plans for businesses. Now, let's just think about this for a minute, right, you know? Let's say you've got a song that's really, really useful. It has a very particular message about it. It's probably going to be really useful. Has a very particular message about it. It's probably going to be really useful to a marketing campaign for a particular company, right, if that company finds a way to work with you directly and you have what they need, it could work well for both parties. So it's good to kind of think laterally sometimes about how you pitch or where you pitch to when it comes to trying to place your songs.
Speaker 1:Film directors are another example. They play a very, very, very key role in the use of songs in movies. It can sometimes be the case that perhaps a film director you know hires a supervision team or a music supervisor to find and clear songs for many parts of a film project, but it's very often their choice as to what they want to use. Now I'm not not just talking about the major, major film directors in this world. Obviously they're very, very difficult to get through to. They may already have ideas of what they want to use and they're just looking for ways to clear it anyway. But there are many, many, many emerging film directors out there working on a variety of very, very exciting projects and, generally speaking, music is kind of the last thing that they do often in terms of right, the edit's done, this is done, that's done.
Speaker 1:Right now we need music. We need music to really help that scene or to save that scene, or to do this, or to force that emotion, or to help that character to be understood by the audience, or whatever. There's so many uses for music and for songs, and Working directly with a director, especially early in their career, can be really useful and fruitful. Ok, it's time to roll in an expert, so I really wanted to get someone that would be of great use to you and somebody that really understands this subject from both a creative and a business level. I've got some pre-recorded clips of someone who I respect greatly, who is absolutely brilliant at what they do and speaks on panels at the sync summits and all sorts of stuff. He runs his own company in this field and I'm going to let him introduce himself.
Speaker 2:Hey Johnny, how are you? Thank you for asking me to be a part of this. My name is Brian Hinckley. I'm the owner of Gratitude Sound. Gratitude Sound started in 2014 and we focus on advertising music. We do a lot of original composition, we have a catalogue of existing music and we represent artists for sync placements.
Speaker 1:Okay. So I asked Brian how has the sync market evolved over the last decade? And this is what he said.
Speaker 2:Number one. There's more opportunity for placements for placements. Video content, podcast content, the different distribution methods has allowed any person that wants to to essentially create their own television station, so there's more need for music. There's more need for placements. Along with that, there's now more competition. There's more libraries out there, there's more people writing specifically for Sync. There are subscription models that didn't exist 10 years ago, where people can pay one flat fee per month and use whatever they want.
Speaker 2:The lower cost of producing music and the ability to create good sounding music without investing a lot of money has allowed people to create more and more and more music, so there's a, I would say, flooded market of music available to be used for sync. What hasn't changed, and what I think is still important, is the relationships that go into these deals, and there are always going to be companies that are looking for the lowest priced option and they don't care much about where it was made or how it was made or even how great it sounds. They just need something that's affordable. But I think for the the people that put more care and concern into their creations they're still looking to have a relationship with the company or with the person that's creating the music and they want to know where this is coming from and they care. So our goal is to sort of cater to that more discerning clients and we try to keep developing relationships both with the artists we work with and with the clients that we work with. Once AI gets good enough which it will to create decent sounding music, those relationships are going to become even more important. Those relationships are going to become even more important. There's a faster pace. I think what I've found in the past 10 years is that where they used to send me a request and say can you get me some examples or some options in a week or so, now it's the same day or next day.
Speaker 2:I think there's also a habit of the companies to cast a wider net. You know that makes it difficult to really put time and effort and you know, when you know that there's hundreds of other options that the agency is going to hear, it's a little more difficult to sort of focus and spend your day trying to really serve the client, because if you were too late you might send it in tomorrow and they've already found something from one of the other companies. So there's a bit of a race. I've noticed a lot of tech companies over the past 10 years are being created to try to simplify the process for music supervisors and to try to help them make the process of finding music easier.
Speaker 2:So you know, I've seen hundreds of different sort of like online marketplaces where they'll sort of collect a bunch of different catalogs and put them into one spot and say, come here and find the music, different tools that help for editing the music or stem deliveries, and there's a lot of technology that's been developed to try to simplify and make the process easier for people and some of those are great and some of them are less great. So you know, I think my overall answer to how has the music sync market evolved in the last decade is there's more of everything. That makes the competition a little bit stiffer, but I think it also makes the end result better. The truly great cream rises to the top. That's my opinion.
Speaker 1:Okay, some solid insight there from Brian. I then asked him what has he learned about music supervision that he didn't know before he started Gratitude Sound, and this is what he said I've certainly learned a lot in the past 10 years.
Speaker 2:The landscape has changed quite a bit as well. I hope that I continue to learn and adapt as needed and, you know, become more and more proficient and better at what I do. Become more and more proficient and better at what I do. Music supervision, I believe, is a term that encompasses many different skills and many different projects, from understanding copyright law to networking and knowing publishers labels, understanding the process of commercial creation and knowing publishers labels. Understanding the process of commercial creation who are the players that are making the calls being able to decipher the creative direction of some of the briefs that we get is an interesting tool to have. One of the things I didn't know when I started was the amount of compromise that typically goes in to a lot of the projects, where you know there's time constraints, there's budget constraints and there's differences of opinion as far as creative direction goes, and with all the people that are involved specifically in advertising because that's what I know most about is a lot of times you have to compromise, um and sort of yield to other people's opinions or if it's a time thing or a budget thing, you know you can't always if they need to deliver a spot tonight. You can keep working on revisions and sending them back and forth, but there's a timeline to when you have to say, okay, that's it and this is the one. And you know that might not always be the best product that can be delivered, but it has to go when it has to go.
Speaker 2:When I started, I was sometimes amazed at how valuable some of the music was, like how much they would be willing to pay for a song and on the other hand, it amazes me at how much people devalue music. You know it all depends on who you're working with, but some of the people really see the importance of music and what it brings to a project and other people. I just it baffles me sometimes they don't understand. You know, when you align a hit song with a commercial, all that nostalgia and all that good feeling that is associated with that song is now associated with that nostalgia and all that good feeling that is associated with that song is now associated with that brand and there's a value in that and you have to pay for that. Sometimes, when people don't understand the value, it surprises me and I'm a music guy, so it disappoints me, but I try to do my best to educate people on the importance of good music, and it all depends, you know, what role do you want the music to play in the commercial, and if you want to play a big role, it's going to cost significantly more money than if you just want a tempo in the background to drive the pace of the spot.
Speaker 2:Another thing that I've learned about music supervision is the amount of paperwork and sort of mundane tasks that go into it. Anybody can choose songs, the work know, finding out who owns the rights to those songs, how can you contact them, negotiating the cost, explaining to them what the usage is and what it's for, and, um, you know. Then you bring that back to the company and there's a whole legal team gets involved, and, uh, it's a slow process that everybody wants to go fast, and so I guess I just assumed when I started that all these companies would have an understanding of how that all works, and what I've learned is that most people don't, and so it's up to us to sort of guide them through the process.
Speaker 1:Okay, it's interesting to hear Brian's view there. He's hugely experienced and knowledgeable in this area and it's interesting to hear that he kind of has to play a sort of educational role at times there with different people from slightly different sectors within the sphere of sync licensing. Absolutely superb to get his insight and it's greatly appreciated. So let's just bookend this episode with a couple of thoughts. Great songs find new homes every single day and very often it only takes one song to open so many new doors and to be able to get that kickstart into that next level in a music creator's career. It can happen, it does happen, and if you work hard enough it will happen.
Speaker 1:I've been involved with sync licensing myself quite heavily over the years, having songs and instrumentals used in different places, and very often you know it's the things that you think, oh really, they're going to use that that's interesting, ok, I didn't think that was very good. And then it gets used and you see how it's been used and you go, oh yeah, well, that works quite well, doesn't it OK? And then other times you go, gosh, this is going to be perfect for this particular spot, and it doesn't get used. And you don't even sometimes get notified that it doesn't get used. You just kind of find out in the sort of most horrible of ways.
Speaker 1:But anyway, the point is that there is an abundance of opportunity out there and it can be a really, really great financial injection into a music creator's career, not to mention, of course, the kudos that comes with it. So if you've got something that you think can add value to a company or a television program or whatever it might be, pitch it, just pitch it. There's nothing to lose, you know. If you, if you're not afraid to kind of be ignored or to be told no, then then go, just go ahead and pitch it, because you know let's just roll back to something that Brian said earlier.
Speaker 2:The truly great cream rises to the top.
Speaker 1:I love that. Thank you, brian. Okay, so that's an overview of Creative Sync Licensing, and this is a subject we're going to return back to on future episodes on the podcast, because there's a lot to it, right, and there's lots of different case studies and angles and ways of looking at it and ways of learning about it. So we'll revisit this subject, but for the time being, thank you for tuning into this episode. Thank you for being here, part of this community, and may the force be with you. The Music Business Party.
