The Music Business Buddy
A podcast that aims to educate and inspire music creators in their quest to achieving their goals by gaining a greater understanding of the business of music. A new episode is released each Wednesday and aims to offer clarity and insight into a range of subjects across the music industry, all through the lens of a music creator for the benefit of other music creators. The series includes soundbites and interviews with guests from all over the world together with commentary and clarity on a range of topics. The podcast is hosted by award winning music industry professional Jonny Amos.
Jonny Amos is a music producer with credits on a range of major and independent labels, a songwriter with chart success in Europe and Asia, a senior lecturer in both music creation and music business at BIMM University UK, director of The SongLab Ltd and the author of The Music Business for Music Creators.
www.jonnyamos.com
The Music Business Buddy
Episode 8: Balancing Beats and Business: Lauren Bough's Songwriting Journey
Ever wondered how a talented songwriter navigates the modern music industry while balancing both writing and performing? Join me, Jonny Amos, on the Music Business Buddy as we uncover the journey of Lauren Bough, an emerging artist and songwriter from the Midlands (UK). Discover how Lauren's education at a contemporary music institute, coupled with strategic career moves, propelled her to become a sought-after name in the dance music scene and the Asian markets of K-pop and J-pop. Gain invaluable insights from Lauren as she shares her experiences and offers advice for budding songwriters aiming to make their mark.
Curious about the intricacies of music industry contracts and publishing deals? Lauren sheds light on her career, managed by True Love Music in Ibiza, and her approach to navigating single song agreements. Learn about her expectations from labels, her preference for equitable splits on masters, and the real challenges songwriters face with current DSP deals. Lauren's candid discussion highlights the importance of strong management and fair compensation in this ever-evolving industry, providing listeners with a clear roadmap through the often murky waters of music contracts.
Finally, get an insider’s view into Lauren’s unexpected foray into K-pop songwriting and her ability to adapt Western pop influences to fit the evolving K-pop sound. Reflect on her university experiences, the connections formed with key industry figures, and the role of proactive networking in her career development. We also explore the unique dynamics of songwriting camps, career aspirations, and the boundless opportunities that continuously reshape the music landscape. Tune in to be inspired by Lauren’s journey and the endless possibilities that await in the music industry.
The Music Business Buddy. The Music Business Buddy. Hello and welcome. You're listening to the Music Business Buddy, with me, johnny Amos, podcasting out of Birmingham in England. I'm the author of the book the Music Business for Music Creators. I'm also a music creator myself and a senior lecturer in both music creation and music business. Wherever you are, whatever you do, please consider yourself welcome to this podcast and to a part of this community. I'm here to try and educate and inspire music creators from all over the world in their quest to achieving their goals by gaining a greater understanding of the business of music.
Speaker 1:Okay, so today we're talking about being an emerging songwriting artist. One of the old career routes in the music industry would be to kind of be an artist and then become a writer later on in your career, and it kind of worked, you know, for a lot of people, worked for me. Um, I kind of, you know, did the artist thing as as far as I could and then evolved into being a writer and producer. That's my path, it's the path of many. I'm a walking cliche, uh, but one of the things that I've noticed in recent years is a complete shift on that, whereby it doesn't have to be like one thing like being an artist, followed by then being a writer. It can work at the same time. In fact, it can even be that being a writer becomes a route to market as an artist. So many artists have been launched in recent years by being hey, this is the person that wrote this, this, this and this over here, and now they're launching their own career. That's been a very, very tried and tested and rather successful sort of PR approach to launching an artist in the digital sphere.
Speaker 1:What I wanted to do today was to find an artist that represents not only this shift, but also somebody that represents the times that we're in, right, somebody that's kind of gone through one of these like cool courses that you find in contemporary music institutes these days, in contemporary music institutes these days and then I want to see was that useful for this person? How did they use that in order to kind of springboard themselves into starting their career as a songwriter? And then, from that, how do you then start to find success as a songwriter? And then, from there, how do you build it into being an artist? So I've found who I think to be a really, really, really good example of this.
Speaker 1:Um, it's a young lady by the name of lauren bow. She is also from the middle region of england where I am located, although we actually met about two years ago on a songwriting camp and you know I thought what a cool, cool person and also, you know, just so knowledgeable for someone so young. So I asked her about, you know, where she'd study or if she'd study, and she told me and I thought, wow, ok, you've become so knowledgeable at such a young age and it made me think, wow, I wish I'd known all that Right when I was younger. Oh, how cliche that is, but but anyway. So she's brilliant.
Speaker 1:She's really really built a good career for herself. She's very modest about it in the interview that you're about to hear, but actually she has she's hot property in the in the songwriting world. Um, she there's a lot of people trying to get in the room with her, you know uh, as producers, as writers, as artists and stuff. Um, she has kind of cross-sectioned between being a writer and being an artist. She would herself, I'm sure, say that she's not quite fully launched her career as an artist yet, but she does have a lot of streams as an artist, perhaps as a topliner and a sort of EDM vocalist for other DJs and producers.
Speaker 1:So she's got a name in the dance music world, which is a hugely thriving scene globally now, but especially in Europe. So she's got a lot of releases with various different labels in the UK and Europe and she's also started to kind of become a very, very kind of active songwriter, especially for the Asian markets, in fact, especially for K-pop in South Korea and J-pop in Japan, which is how I met her on a camp for those marketplaces. So let's hear, I had a conversation with her about kind of how she's got started, where she's at now, where she hopes to go. So I hope that there are emerging songwriters and artists out there right now, in this minute, that are able to learn from Lauren's experiences and plough it into your own path, especially how she got some of her breaks. So I'm going to play the interview right now. So the first question is what is the current status of your career in terms of who you have signed agreements with?
Speaker 2:so I'm currently unpublished. I am managed. I've got a great management team that are based in Ibiza called True Love Music, and I do a lot of single song agreements when it comes to releases, so that it's just for that song. I used to work with some sort of like middle companies with hit vocals and they would take some of my publishing, but only on each song, so I wasn't actually signing a deal. And then I do also work exclusively with a publisher in Asia, but again, it's not actually anything signed at the moment. So yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:So actually, I mean considering like how many, how many releases and stuff that you're involved with, you're actually in a pretty good position contractually. So well, well done you. You've managed to. You've managed that well, okay. So so you sign a song to, to a label. Uh, because you have such a killer voice, you know people are, like you know, wanting to use your voice on their recordings to release them. What is your expectation, then, of a label that you've done, like a one song deal with in the dance world, for example?
Speaker 2:um, first of all, they've got to be fair and their contracts have got to absolutely make sense and put things in to protect me. I've had a few um situations recently where it hasn't been like that and I haven't actually been able to sign the deal because there was nothing in there to protect me and they didn't want to change anything. Um, but that's why I have my management, so they can make sure that that's all okay. Um, but yeah, I guess, just loads of promotion, um, a lot of sort of promo through social media and a lot of TikTok stuff at the moment. Um, and yeah, just making sure that everything I sign is fair and that I'm getting the splits that I deserve, which is hard these days it is, it is, and I'm glad you've that I deserve, which is hard these days.
Speaker 1:It is, it is, and I'm glad you've, I'm glad you've mentioned that. And for people that you know are wanting to kind of, you know, follow in your footsteps and find their place in sort of in house music, in techno, in D&B, anything like kind of electronic going forward, what, what do you feel is like a fair deal on the masters? So, if we put like, publishing aside for a minute, um, you know, because there's all sorts of different things and I look at a lot of contracts and I think that's decent, that's kind of weird that they're going to recoup on before they do this but they're not going to say how much they're going to spend before they actually start to recoup. There's a lot of ifs and buts in there, which is, I guess, why it's nice to have your management come in and, yeah, on your behalf, and kind of battle for you. You know which is ace. Um, but what do you think is a fair deal on masters? Like 50 artists, 50 label?
Speaker 2:I think it should be, yeah, but it never really is. I mean, the bigger the label, the more they're gonna take. Um, it's usually like 70, 30, but then obviously that 30 is then split between you and the producer and the other writers, so it's really annoying, but I think, yeah, I think, to be honest, I think the writers should get even more than 50 percent, like, especially because it's being split between so many different people. But yeah, I guess that would be the best option, because a lot of them take 70, which I just think is, you know, a bit sad that's a lot, isn't it?
Speaker 1:I mean, I mean, that's so if you've got a label that takes 70 and let's say, for example, you're the vocalist and songwriter, and then maybe you've got even two or three other producers splitting that 30, it doesn't leave you with a whole lot on the masters. Are those companies then expecting to sign the recording in perpetuity, or are you sort of getting those masters back after 20 years, or do you find that varies?
Speaker 2:that varies. I mean, that's all stuff that my management sort of. They cover that side and then they'll just explain it all to me afterwards and it's different with every contract and every label. But it's not a lot really when you think of it, because if it is 70-30, you know if you and the producer have decided on a split, and a lot of the time if it's sort of a DJ producer, they're getting more than you because their name, you know that kind of thing. They're getting more than you because their name, you know that kind of thing. So you can end up with like 20 of 30, you know, and it just ends up not being that much. So that's why everyone's really battling as well for some writers to get master points now, because when everything's narrowed down it's not actually that much, even if you get a lot of streams no, that's.
Speaker 1:That's a very good point. And it's weird because you've got you know where let's. If we look at like the dsp, spotify, apple and stuff for a moment, there's so many like the deal that, like the 80 20 deal to masters and 20 to songwriting, that's kind of been set up for you know quite a few years now, was kind of negotiated by, you know, by the major label conglomerates and they almost kind of negotiate it on behalf of the rest of the world in a way, and it doesn't leave a great deal of incentive for songwriters. I mean, for you, you've got such a killer voice, lauren, that people are like, yeah, we want to use Lauren's voice. This is only an audio podcast, not a visual. But you danced when I said that, which is nice, but like if you were writing on something but not using your vocals, it leaves you with next to nothing.
Speaker 2:Well, a lot of the time you won't actually get points on the master, which is what this is why Ray's doing a big sort of movement about it at the moment because a lot of the you just obviously get the publishing, which is great and hopefully you'll get a nice bit of money from that.
Speaker 2:But really a lot of it comes from the masters, and I mean I've got a lot of friends. I've got a really close friend, brian, in Brazil, and he's desperately trying to sort of help with that change, and so is one of my friends in Australia. So anytime I work with them, if I don't actually end up singing it, then they'll try and get me points on the master, even if it means giving me some of their points as producers, which is just a bit wrong. Like we really need to get points on the master, but not a lot of labels or people that you work with actually want that, because obviously they're trying to make as much as they can from it. So it leaves us in a bit of a rubbish position sometimes it does, it's, uh, it's.
Speaker 1:It's interesting to see how it's all kind of evolving in that respect. Um, and what about the publishing side? So you mentioned, I mean, will you okay? So if we just step slightly aside from the, the dance music world for a moment into, like you're really active as like a k-pop writer and you're, you're one of those people that's kind of really in my view, like really on the way up into doing some amazing in fact, you're already there in many ways. Um, how did you, how did you get into being someone that's like yeah, I'm, I'm a k-pop writer because you're really good at it we've worked together, right, you're amazing at it, lauren. Like, how did you? How did you kind of go yeah, I'm a, I'm gonna be a k-pop writer, like what, what happened?
Speaker 2:that was just a bit of a fluke, because I never actually really listened to k-pop. I never loved k-pop. I always wrote pop music, more like english pop. And then I met tim, who was my lecturer at university, um, and he gave me a couple of chances at it and I wasn't very good at it because back then it was like really cheesy, like crazy cheesy, and I was writing things like Little Mix over here, which was way too western for them, and so I left uni.
Speaker 2:And then, a couple of years later, tim got back in touch and he was like, do you fancy giving it another go? And in between, this time I had given it another try with another publisher and stuff, so it's a little more used to it. But it completely changed because their sound had gone way more western. So all the little mix vibes I was writing suddenly was exactly what they wanted out there for all of their artists. So yeah, so a couple years later I tried again and then Tim was like, oh wow, this is great. And then all of a sudden I was like, oh wow, I can actually write this now because it's far more western than it has ever been, and it was really sounded like something you'd hear from like Fifth Harmony, like all the girl bands over here. It was exactly the same kind of music, just with a bit of rap added to it, which definitely was difficult to learn how to do. But my friend Kieran sat me down for an hour and showed me how to do that one, so that was okay.
Speaker 1:Did Kieran help you with the rapping and stuff? Yeah, oh, wow. Okay, that's funny. That's Kieran Davis, a top-line writer, an extraordinary, wonderful person. Tim, who you were talking about, there's tim tim hawes, right from oreo music. So tim was your lectin, so tim's a bit of a legend as well, isn't he? I mean, he has achieved so many things in his career as a writer and as a producer and you know, rumor has it he was involved in naming the spice girls yeah, I think so yeah I think didn't even like one of one of their original demos.
Speaker 1:For that first album and it was, it was called spiced up or something, and then you know, and then the management team at the time were like oh, we need to call them that and that's kind of something. That's that's a pretty big accolade, isn't it? Yeah, so, okay. So so tim was. Tim was your lecturer, he heard you do what you do. Um, I should imagine not wanting to speak on his behalf, but I should imagine he's probably thought okay, what you're doing might not fit k-pop right now yeah, but.
Speaker 1:You are the right kind of person because you're a grafter, lauren. You're a hard worker, you're fun to be around, you're funny, and so therefore, he's probably thought do you know what? I could put Lauren into camps and put her into the room and she'd be great and people would love her, and you know, and the style of writing that you were doing all of a sudden became Flavour of the Month.
Speaker 2:So it was kind of those two things together.
Speaker 1:all kind of point towards this. Let's give her a go at this. Yeah, and you've been doing it ever since.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have. I mean, I did do like a. I mean I wasn't that awful at it to begin with, it just didn't really fit. And then he did put me in a session with Kieran and we actually did do a really good song. But after that that it kind of fizzled out, because Tim knew that I loved my dance music, he knew I had opportunities in dance and he sort of said to me, like go and spread your wings in the dance world and then we'll see where we're at.
Speaker 2:And then, a couple years later, as I was about to message him about k-pop, he randomly messaged me about k-pop and I was like wow, it's meant to be. And then, yeah, it really was the case where my sort of writing style was exactly the sort of vibe that had changed in Korea. That was what they were all singing. So it worked out, timing wise, really well, because it also allowed me to go and pursue dance music for a bit and get my foot in the door there, so that I can sort of do both. So yeah, it was really good interesting, okay.
Speaker 1:So so on the publishing side, I mean, on the one hand, you know, if you had like a major publisher, you know, come in for you and say, lauren, we want to work with you worldwide on all of your projects. You know, it's like it might look good on your instagram, right, that you're signed to like I don't know, warner music, universal music, whatever. But the reality is a bit different, isn't it? Because you know, when you're doing stuff for asia, you need to have a very, very good, specific publisher, which you have, and you've got a good working agreement with them. But you've also got your dance music projects that you know are pretty vast and you've got a lot going on there and in many ways, the only common ground there is the fact that they're both in the music industry, because stylistically and culturally they sit in very, very different places yeah they do.
Speaker 1:You kind of manage both of those projects on the publishing side quite differently well, I think, because I'm not published at the moment.
Speaker 2:I think when I do look into publishing, there are a few circumstances where certain publishers would take out potentially asia, if they know I'm already working in the asian market through someone else. Um, but yeah, it's a bit tricky, but I'm not sure because I'm not actually signed on a publishing deal at the moment. So that doesn't really matter at the moment, which is good because I can still do both and I don't have to worry about that. That's why I'm sort of not signing a publishing deal right now. Yeah, I've got the best of both worlds, I guess at the minute.
Speaker 2:I can't help but think that you would be a little bit restricted if you were to do so yeah, I think so, unless, unless it was a case of I could have two, um, yeah different sort of parts of the world or different types of music, which I know can happen because I've spoken to quite a few different people about it and I know that that does exist. But yeah, interesting.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's kind of you know, a little bit like you know this, this idea that, okay, so you've got a lot of different people, that kind of go right, let me do a deal for North America with that company and let me go and deal for the rest of the world with that company. But there's two problems there, I think now in the 2020s. One is that everything's so global that it becomes very difficult to kind of distinguish a difference in catalogue between you know, if you release something in the UK, it's available everywhere, if it's on Spotify, right to a certain extent.
Speaker 1:And secondly, what you're doing is not necessarily like almost just different territories, but actually totally different styles yeah and I am yet to see a publishing deal or two different publishing deals that differentiate between those two things. They probably exist, but I look at a lot of deals.
Speaker 1:I've not seen one that does that yet yeah um, so you know, I, I, you know it's kind of quite sort of pioneering and modern really to split them like that and manage them differently. Yeah and and good for you for doing that as well. You know, puts you in, it puts you in a in a good spot. Tell us about your music education, lauren. You went to study at a ACM, inford right, just south of London. What was your experience like in contemporary music education and how useful was it to what you do now?
Speaker 2:I actually loved it because I'm from a small town in the Midlands and I knew that staying here wasn't going to make me many contacts and I just knew that I had to get into the industry somehow. So I did care about the degree, I guess, but I also didn't, because I just wanted to make contacts and I thought being, you know, in a place where I know people are working in the industry, um, you know, would help me out. So I went there and, yeah, it was really good. So I was a bit of a try hard, which is great, um, and I went to all the sort of after uni songwriting lectures and all the extra bits that I could do. I did, and obviously I met Tim, which has worked out really well for me, um, and then I also met someone I don't know if you know him, actually Jamie Sellers.
Speaker 1:I know Jamie very well. I love Jamie.
Speaker 2:So Jamie really helped me out. I don't even know if he knows he helped me out this much, but he sort of, I guess, started, kickstarted my dance off really, because I'd been to quite a few of his after uni songwriting things and it was in my second year and my uni course was only two years anyway and I was thinking, god, I really need to make some good contacts here, like I'm leaving in a year. So I'd noticed that he really loved everything I'd been doing at these songwriting lectures. So I waited for everyone to leave the lesson and I pretended that I couldn't find my phone and then I went up to him at the end and I was like, look, I want to work in the music industry. This is what I've always wanted to do in my life. I was like, can you help me in any way? And he was like, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:So then he got me, he put me in touch with Notting Hill music publisher and we set up a meeting and they came and got me from the station and I went to meet one of their like head A&Rs at the time and she sat me down and that's when she told me all about top line writing and dance music and how DJs produce these tracks and want the melody just on top which I'd never even heard of before, and she sent me a few to have a go at and I sent her a couple demos back and she loved them. And then that's when I was like, wow, I can do this. And yeah, I just got my foot in the door with more and more people and built up from there, really so that all wouldn't have happened if I hadn't have gone to to uni. I don't think so. Yeah, it definitely helped and I did love the course as well, because to me was sort of easy, because I loved songwriting anyway, so it wasn't really difficult, so I really enjoyed it, wow and it was a songwriting degree yeah good
Speaker 2:it was fun. It was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed it. It was great because by the time I did my final project, um, I was already working with another company, um, who was sort of like a middle man company where they placed my voice on tracks and stuff. But I could use that as my final project to say I was already working in the industry, um, so I just basically had to write a load of essays on songs that I already had being pitched and coming out. So it's made everything really good and really easy, oh wow.
Speaker 1:That's so good. I love hearing that it's so, it's so nice and it's so useful for the listeners as well. Lauren, because there's, you know, know, there's there's a lot of great courses out there. Yeah, and very often you know, kind of the process of going through a course is is perhaps more important than the piece of paper at the end of it, you know yeah, and that's what I feel like a lot of people didn't understand.
Speaker 2:Like it, it would actually drive me a bit crazy because we were in this room probably similar to you and bim like we were with all these people, all these lecturers who had experience, who had their own contacts, and no one seemed to care. Everyone just sort of looked at them as our teachers and I thought these are the people that are going to help us like out of everyone here, not the degree unless, unless you want to go into something else, but to get in the industry, like I knew that I needed to become besties with all the teachers, which I did well done, you well done, and that that's that's.
Speaker 1:That's brilliant that you found that kind of route. I mean, jamie's the top guy. I'm gonna try and get jamie on the podcast. Actually, um, I mean, I've been thinking about him as a great guest to have anyway, but now you've said that I'm like right, that's a perfect segue, definitely try and get me on the show. Um, but okay. So then he mentioned uh to you about notting hill. You met with notting hill. Uh, trying to think it's, would that have been sasha that you met with sassy?
Speaker 2:yes, sorry, yeah, yeah but yeah no, she doesn't work there anymore, I don't think but he literally texted her to say I really want you to meet this girl, like she's great, blah, blah blah. So he really helped me out with that, um. And then, yeah, and it, I didn't actually end up getting any cuts with notting hill, nothing like that. It just it just opened that door for top line writing, which I didn't even know was a thing, and then I found other companies and other people who did it and it just got the ball rolling really. And he always said to me he was like everything will just suddenly start falling into place one day. And that's how I'm feeling right now, actually, and I always think he always said that to me he's a wise man.
Speaker 1:He's a wise man. He's absolutely on the money there. Yeah, well, you know, when you work hard, things do happen, don't they? When you go the extra mile. And you know and of course you know nothing you know they're a fantastic music publisher and they're kind of very, very active in, you know, uh, pairing up.
Speaker 1:You know acapellas and top-line vocalists yeah artists, you know, ministry of sound and all these kind of big dance labels and stuff. Um, so that kind of helps you to understand a little bit more about the marketplace. Yeah, good for you, that's, that's great. Well, it was well worth studying them, wasn't it? That was good yeah, it was okay now.
Speaker 1:Now, lauren, let me ask you about this, because I know that you know from going from like, you know you fly around the world a lot, right? Yeah, you know, whenever I see your instagram, like, right, where's lauren now? How is she not dizzy? Um, so, you know, you might be in, you know, on a k-pop camp in south korea and then you fly to ib there you might perform you don't have a big release out the next week and then the week after that you might be playing like a local pub gig. You know, yeah, and yeah to most people that aren't in the music world, they might look at that and go. I don't get it like, how does that work? Like, and and it's difficult to kind of explain it to people, right, even just some friends and family sometimes um, it's difficult to find that balance and manage it all. How do you do that?
Speaker 2:It is hard and people do get a bit confused, but at the end of the day, right now, like you know, there's so many people that still do other jobs and are still, you know, got to get their bit of pocket money and so coming back and doing pub gigs, it's what I've always known. It's something I can easily do, um, and somewhere I know where I can always, you know, get some money if I need to um. But yeah, it is a bit tiring and the problem I have a lot is that, um, it's sort of all the dates sort of clash with each other, so it can be a bit difficult trying to actually book gigs in and be away and come home. But I love it and you know, it really helps me out, still, because I'm not published or anything at the moment. Um, but yeah, no, I absolutely love it. I just love traveling as well. So it's good that I can come back and still have some work here as well as alongside the songwriting yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And do you manage your own diary or do you management get involved with that, or do you know how does that work?
Speaker 2:I'm a bit rubbish. I do manage my own diary, but my management? They're constantly trying to get me to fill it out so they can see, and I'm just hopeless at remembering to do things like that. So they do try and help me, but a lot of it I sort of plan on my own and then they text me and they're like, oh, you're in Spain. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'm sorry, but they do keep an eye on me and they are really great and they look after me a lot, which is exactly what you want in a manager. You know I can trust them so much, so it works out. And Ib exactly what you want in a manager. You know I can trust them so much, so it works out. And Ibiza is sort of. I mean, they, they live there, so they plan everything for me when I go out to Ibiza, they get me in everywhere. They get me everything backstage. It's honestly incredible. I couldn't have asked for better people to sort of be on my side.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it's really good that sounds like a lot of fun. It is good for you. Well done you. Um. So songwriting camps um, you go to a lot of songwriting camps. Uh, we met on a songwriting camp, right? Yeah, we did a deep hop in denmark, uh, two years ago, in 2022, which was a great camp, by the way.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That was such a good camp. It was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:We just laughed the whole week, didn't we? Yeah, it was brilliant. But you go to a lot of different camps in a lot of different countries. Now, do you see much variation between songwriting camps, or is it pretty much kind of this is how it works everywhere?
Speaker 2:um, do you mean in terms of styles of music or just how the camps run?
Speaker 1:in terms of like how the camps are run, like, for example, I've noticed a lot of the sort of southern european camps have quite a different culture from some northern european camps where in northern europe it's colder right and you get longer, it gets darker earlier and you get longer for the producer to work on tracks, whereas if in you know Greece, spain, some of the Southern European countries, it's like come on, we're finishing at five and we're going for dinner because that's the culture.
Speaker 1:And then you get producers kind of going oh come on, the track's not ready, I need longer. You know this is some of the. Perhaps you're doing them with people from different cultures, from you know. Do you find that they're like incredibly long days, every day, of everyone you go to in every country, or have you noticed differences between them in that respect?
Speaker 2:I don't know. Actually, I think it's sort of as long as you want to make it. So when I was, I went to Spain a couple of months ago. I've just got back from there again. I actually ended up at the same studio, um, but I went there a couple of months ago and, like, with that camp we were, we were ready to wrap up by six and then all of a sudden the producers started playing some different chords and I had a melody idea and then we were like, wow, this is amazing, let's just stay here and get it done. So then we were there till about 11 pm, um, whereas everyone else had left, so we could have left whenever we wanted. I think it's usually on the camps I've been on. They are all quite similar in terms of you do like you have a group in the morning, group in the afternoon and you swap um the camp I've just been on, we didn't do that. Actually we were going to swap, but everyone was just enjoying getting the final song completely polished rather than having half of a track that still needs finishing up, um, so we just stayed with the same group each day, um, but yeah, it's that. I think they all pretty much run the same.
Speaker 2:I've done a lot with artist tribe, who are really good, and they've been doing them all over the world. They've got more this year Hopefully I'll be going on some, but yeah, I've also just been getting messages from like Instagram to go on them and things, so it's been super cool this year, like I went to Switzerland. That studio was incredible. It was called Rhoda Music Music. It was crazy. They had a spa in the studio which can't complain about.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's a disaster for a producer. You're like, oh god, there's a spa there and I've got like 20 stems and they're all over the place yeah, well, what they've got a few different I prefer.
Speaker 2:So I've been on songwriting camps where at the end of the week we do a listening party, similar to what we did in Denmark. I think that worked really well. But a lot of camps I've been on recently do a listening party every night at the end of each day, which puts a hell of a lot more pressure on everyone to get it done. So in Switzerland we had to have the song sent by 8pm, so the producers did get it done and then we all went to the spa and we all chilled out. But I think it actually works better when they've got that bit more time to just sort of play around with it, and then everyone can chill out on the last night.
Speaker 2:But yeah, they've all been different. The one I've just been on was similar to the one we went on, where everyone has a little drink of an evening and a little sing song and a little dance. But I have also been on somewhere that's not really a thing and everyone's just fully focused and there to do the work, you know. But I love them when you can have a good time as well, because then it's not even like you're working, you're just having fun, so yeah well, you gotta get the balance right between work and play both.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know so, in regards to, I mean, what you mentioned there about camps, I mean what about, like song splits, for example? You know, like when, when we were on uh depop together in denmark, you know, like john john, the great, great john agard, that runs that camp, um, he, you know, he's always very, very, very open and direct about song splits, like, look, everything is even between everybody. We do song split sheets every day. Yeah, I've been on that camp many years and no one's ever had a problem with that and it's great and it's really transparent. Do you find that with other camps? Or like, is it? Do you ever had any kind of awkward? Well, I deserve this part of the song and have you ever had any of that on camps? Or is it all just even splits?
Speaker 2:um, I haven't ever had any of that.
Speaker 2:I wish that more of the camps would sort of get in the habit of making us all sign a split sheet every day, because the one I've just been on we've done split sheets, but before that I hadn't really done that on other camps, which maybe would be a smart idea, so that there's not any awkwardness when it comes to if the song gets released.
Speaker 2:Um, but no, everything's usually split equally, which is absolutely fine. I've a couple of the camps I've been on. They cover all my costs but take a percentage of my publishing, which is pretty normal, like there's a lot of camps like that and obviously they're footing the bill for a lot of things. I've had ones where they'll cover my flights, my accommodation, my food, so it's like if they do want to take some of my publishing, then they can. It's either 25 or sometimes 50, so it depends how good the camps are really as to if you want to do it. But I always look at sort of who else is going on them and what people I can actually network with and the benefits of who we can actually pitch to, to sort of decide whether it's worth that or not. But on everyone it has been.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. I suppose the upside of that then means that you're not having to put your hand in your pocket for all those expenses, but I'm presuming. Therefore then the downside of that arrangement is that you can't then just go pitching those songs to whoever you want, because they've got to go through that.
Speaker 2:Publisher we can pitch them to whoever we want. But if they get picked, then my publishing, some of my publishing, would go to them. So I could go and pitch them to some artists I know and some friends and stuff.
Speaker 1:It would just be the case of if it gets picked, they get some of my publishing ah, but you wouldn't be able to go through other publishers with it no yeah okay, so that, yeah, that's a slight restriction, but you know it's better that than pay for everything yourself and that's more of a higher risk to you and stuff.
Speaker 2:Well, they only do that as well with people who are unpublished. So obviously the people that are published, their publishers, should be footing the bill for everything, and you know, whereas with the people that are unpublished, we don't get that option. So they give us that option, which I actually think is great, because how much it would cost to go and do something like that, without even thinking of the studio, like how much the studio would probably cost on top of the accommodation and the flights and stuff, I always think it's worth it.
Speaker 1:so yeah, hopefully it will be.
Speaker 2:Hopefully I get a big hit from one of them soon oh, you will, you will, I'm, I'm pretty sure of that.
Speaker 1:Um, finally, lauren, um, what you know, you've in in a relatively because you're young, and so, for a relatively short amount of time from when you've gone, yep, I'm going to go and study songwriting, to kind of where you are now. You're still only really young, but you've, you've achieved a lot, I think, um, and you've come a long way. What do you want your future to hold in your music career?
Speaker 2:I just want to be a successful writer where I can completely live off just my writing, but I also I would love to also do the artist route. I think and that's something I'm really thinking about at the moment because I feature on a lot of tracks and I think I would just love to be able to go to Ibiza and perform alongside the DJs that I've worked with, that kind of thing, and maybe eventually release my own sort of albums and EPs. Um, but yeah, I just want. I just want to be successful. I want to do it all. I want to do Sync, I want to do Brighton for the people, I want my own sort of pathway. So I just want to take over the world basically, you get my vote, lauren.
Speaker 1:I'm all for it. I think, I think that, yeah, that the more and more people that hear you and see you and you experience what you're all about you know will only make people happy. So thank you for joining, joining us, uh, on this, on this podcast, it's much appreciated for having me okay.
Speaker 1:So there's some cool insight there from lauren, um, I think there's a couple of things that really kind of stuck out to me, um, from listening back to the interview just now. Actually, which, um, firstly, is how clued up she is on her intellectual property and her role in what she is kind of owed on that, like I hear a lot of people in their 30s, their 40s, their 50s, you know, talking about, you know about that kind of stuff because they've lived through it, they've experienced it. Lauren's 24 and she knows so much about that already, which I think is partially down to experience, but also partially down to her education. So it's great that she kind of knows how to balance. She understands her publishing, she understands her masters. Even if she knows she's not quite getting the deal she wants on a particular project, she at least understands it. You know she's got a good understanding of how the business works. That's really really important.
Speaker 1:Another thing that really grabbed me was this she really knows how to serve the industry and I think that the industry is starting to serve her well. Her focus is on the project at hand. Right, you know, she's not getting too caught up in her perfect ideals because every time she works on a project, she's working for the song, not for herself, and I think that's that's, whether she realizes it or not that's something that's really really helping her, that's really aiding her path to get to where she wants to go. It's clear that she's got some, some big ambitions and I can't think of any reason as to why she can't achieve anything that she wants to achieve, and I think that goes not only for Lauren, but for anybody else that's in that position that says you know what? Yep, I want to write, I want to play, I want to sing, I want to do that.
Speaker 2:Anything's possible.
Speaker 1:And I know it might feel kind of cheesy to say that, but it's true. I witness so many amazing things happening in the music industry, so much growth, so many opportunities that just were not here when you woke up this morning and suddenly they're here. Things like that happen every single day and it's so great to see, and it can happen to anyone at any time. Anyway, thank you for tuning in. I will catch you next time. Until then, may the force be with you.
