The Music Business Buddy
A podcast that aims to educate and inspire music creators in their quest to achieving their goals by gaining a greater understanding of the business of music. A new episode is released each Wednesday and aims to offer clarity and insight into a range of subjects across the music industry, all through the lens of a music creator for the benefit of other music creators. The series includes soundbites and interviews with guests from all over the world together with commentary and clarity on a range of topics. The podcast is hosted by award winning music industry professional Jonny Amos.
Jonny Amos is a music producer with credits on a range of major and independent labels, a songwriter with chart success in Europe and Asia, a senior lecturer in both music creation and music business at BIMM University UK, director of The SongLab Ltd and the author of The Music Business for Music Creators.
www.jonnyamos.com
The Music Business Buddy
Episode 36: Exploring the Art of Connection with KnowleDJ
Get ready to explore the vibrant world of music with Las Vegas-based DJ KnowleDJ; a maestro who knows how to rock a party while championing social causes. Find out how KnowleDJ has skillfully turned his passion for music into a tool for healing and uniting people, creating unforgettable moments for his audience. He opens up about his journey from being a promoter in the late 90s to becoming a DJ and eventually a producer, seamlessly blending his love for traditional vinyl with cutting-edge digital techniques. Listeners will gain insights into how he crafts the perfect atmosphere by reading the room and balancing his musical tastes with audience preferences.
Join us as we navigate the dynamic DJ industry learning why versatility and professionalism are crucial in a crowded market. Discover how KnowleDJ's creative process evolved from making mashups to producing original tracks through collaboration. This episode also emphasizes the importance of mastering both DJing skills and business acumen, while highlighting the power of face-to-face interaction in building lasting relationships. Whether you're a DJ, producer, or music enthusiast, KnowleDJ's story underscores the profound impact music can have in bridging divides and bringing people together across cultural and language barriers.
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The Music Business Buddy. The Music Business Buddy Hello everybody and a very warm welcome to you. You're listening to the Music Business Buddy with me, johnny Amos, podcasting out of Birmingham in England. I'm the author of the book the Music Business for Music Creators, available in hardback, paperback, ebook format. I'm also a music creator with credits on a variety of major and indie labels, as a writer, producer, and I'm also a senior lecturer in both music business and music creation. Wherever you are, whatever you do, consider yourself welcome to this podcast and to a part of the community around it. I'm here to try and educate and inspire music creators from all over the world in their quest to achieving their goals by gaining a greater understanding of the business of music.
Speaker 1:Okay, so in this week's episode, I am talking to Las Vegas-based DJ Knowledge. I'm going to be talking to him about his career, about how it started, about where he's at now and where he wants to go, and he talks brilliantly, especially in regard to philosophy of music. So he has toured with the likes of Ariana Grande, mariah Carey, backstreet Boys, flowrider, ice Cube. He's a really, really interesting guy, so I will hand over to the interview. I hope you enjoy this. I hope you learn something. I hope it's useful. Here we go Knowledge. Welcome to the Music Business, buddy. Thanks for having me Coming to us out of Las Vegas. It's exciting. I really really love what you do and it's really really good to have you here on this show. How are you? You've had a busy few days, by the sounds of things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just been did some gigs in Canada. Came back and Mariah Carey's in town. I toured with her a few years ago and I connected with her backup singers and we decided to try and do a song and it's coming out pretty well actually.
Speaker 1:Well, what a cool way to start the show. That's brilliant. I love that. Well, in fact, on that note, let's start with the here and now. You know, um, so you have amassed a reputation for yourself as as a life enthusiast, as a social activist, as a party rocker, as an extraordinaire. How did you go about developing your ideals into what you've become?
Speaker 2:That's a good question. I mean it encapsulates basically what you just said, what I try to do in life, not just, you know, in the club or the festival. For me, you know, life isn't in its narrow capacities. You know, as a DJ, I'm known to play music. But, you know, through social media and connecting with people and all other you know platforms in life, I feel like music takes on such a bigger component. Right, there's so much more to life, so much more to music, so much more of what you can do with it. I've gone deep into studying and understanding how it connects people, how it it creates healing, how it can be flipped to do the opposite as well, and so I've made it my mission to get the best out of life and and combining that with music and connecting people. And and I think that's where that slogan kind of comes from- I love it.
Speaker 1:I love it. I read that on your website. I thought that's such a wonderful way of wording things as brilliant. And in fact you know you talk about the impact of music on you and on people. You, in the role of a DJ, you know you have to be reactive right, you have to read the room and change the feeling and kind of like a musical puppeteer around people. But it can also be a very proactive role where you solidly dictate the mood from the off right. How does, how do emerging djs get that kind of balance right? I guess it only comes with experience, does it not?
Speaker 2:yeah, well, you know. I say you know, a good dj plays music a better dj play, or a better DJ plays music that the audience likes, or sorry, the good DJ plays music that they like. A better DJ plays what the audience likes. The best DJs know how to combine the two. So you know there is a powerful way that music can move crowds and as a DJ, you know you get, you develop this mental library of you know, you know tempo and pitch and song key, minor, major and sometimes it's just instinctive, right. But when you know these powerful effects of music, it's the way they're and the way you combine them to create these moods or, you know, more importantly, move crowds.
Speaker 2:So you know that's the key that a DJ, I think, understands. You can't just go from happy to sad. You have to make these transitions and I think that takes a real keen understanding as a DJ and it actually translates to life in a lot of ways. You know, like when you take a song and you know there's certain songs that in my mental library even have them, you know, in my libraries, you know, listed as transitions. I think that's very much what you have to do on a dance floor, but really the dance floor of life too right.
Speaker 1:That's so good. And do you? I know that, you know, I know DJs that kind of just are take the kind of more old school mentality with vinyl and you know being hands on. And then there are others that kind of take a full digital route and you know there's neither you know right or wrong, or it's just about what it does for people, right, what's your kind of? Do you have a hybrid?
Speaker 2:approach to it, or do you just do you more the the old way or the new way, or how does it work for you? Yeah, that'd be accurate to say I. I do take a very hybrid approach. I mean, I used to do records, but I was also the first to sort of adopt cds. Like you know, this goes on over 25, 30 years now, when cds started being used in clubs to be mixed and there was a lot of animosity to that.
Speaker 2:And I remember the CDJ-1000 coming out in 2001 and I was one of the first people to buy it and I just saw the incredible value of taking. You know, not only would it, you know, not only could you mix, but you could actually manipulate the music the way you would on a turntable. And to this day that applies heavily to my style, because I started on records when, at a time when scratching and creating these manual effects were very important. To this day, I combine that. So I use a MIDI controller. You know a lot of people use what's called the CDJ-3000, which is a update of the 1000 that I originally bought years and years ago. But on the MIDI controller I find I have even more functionality, more ability to modify music in different ways.
Speaker 2:So it's really a combination of using these effects to create not just smooth beat mixes. You know a lot of you know. I would say the difference between a beginner and a highly experienced DJ is is the ability to take beats that are entirely uh uh in a whole different area. You know something at 80 BPM, for example, and one 30 won't mix. So it's about your ability to combine them in a certain way that's still palatable to an audience and doesn't sound like a train wreck, which isn't uh, which is, which can be quite a challenge, because most djs just want to mix straight, and for me, I I've learned over decades how to combine things, how to create surprises, you know, and still transition smoothly yeah, yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm just thinking about some of the DJ sets that I've seen in recent years and I remember seeing Steve Aoki several years ago and being really, really impressed by the level changes throughout his sets. I mean, the energy never felt like it dropped, but there were certainly large incremental jumps in tempo from time to time. But we see a lot of people doing that by transitioning with maybe effects, echo, breaks, reverbs, things like that. Is that something that has become a modern part of a DJ's work tool?
Speaker 2:For sure, for sure, and it's the clever combination of the old school manipulation that I like to do anyway, with the way you know understanding, you know how a record moves manually and that you know started years and years ago for me. But combining them with these high, you know these digital effects, you know the delays and reverbs and whatnot. But you said something interesting with Steve Aoki reverbs and whatnot. But I, he said something interesting with steve aoki. I remember first seeing him dj almost 15 years ago now and you know he would really combine motion and I remember at the time him getting a lot of animosity and I nowadays I look at it the opposite. I really think he was a pioneer in using that body motion to excite audiences, create momentum in other ways that, in a visual way that I don't think was ever used before and I think that scared DJs at the time, but now it's very much a standard way of doing it for some DJs like myself. Actually.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so a bit of a maverick. So let's just time jump back um a little bit. So how did how did you get started in the in the music business? You know what was the kind of the starting point, that that kind of just was the pivot point for you to go, hey, this is what I'm gonna do. You know what did that look like for you?
Speaker 2:um, that's a good question. So it started for me a very long time ago, boy, uh 19, it was the late 90s and I was a promoter and I was going to school, university and, uh, I started by putting on events myself and uh started at my house. And then I'll never forget uh, concert promoters like hey man, you should be putting on events. And I'll never forget concert promoters like hey man, you should be putting on events. And I'll never forget. You know, my first event did very well but, you know, didn't make a whole lot of money, and by not a whole lot I mean very little. And you learn it as a business.
Speaker 2:I was an economic student, so you know I took very much a business approach and then it was actually a club owner that I used to promote events for. That said, you know, you really should learn how to DJ. And I had the unique opportunity because he had the DJ equipment at the club and I was being given records from these labels who knew I was the main promoter in my city. So I had all these records and so it just naturally fit and then the bug stuck. I loved it.
Speaker 2:I love learning how to mix, but I still feel grateful that I started as a promoter because it gave me a very, very important perspective, which is what the audience likes and what I like. And it's again back to what I originally said that ability to combine the two. That's what truly makes a dj great to me, and I remember bringing in djs who just didn't appreciate the need to play to my audience and at the end of the day that hurt my pocketbook right, like if dj can't fill the room or or would, even worse, lose the room that I helped promote. You know that doesn't help me and that's not a good way to keep a relationship right. And so when the club owner hired me, he knew that I I understood that perspective that is fascinating.
Speaker 1:I mean, it would make perfect sense for somebody who is a DJ to transition into hey, let's start putting on my own nights. But to do it the other way around is wonderful. I love that through the lens of a music publisher, because you'll look at it differently and you'll get to appreciate what they need from you. And we can apply that to various different roles in the music business, I'm sure. But that's fascinating. That must have given you a really big advantage from the off. I would think.
Speaker 2:You know I would say yeah, fundamentally. I just I didn't realize it at the time, but I really do feel blessed in the I. I have a business brain and I have a creative musical brain and I've learned over time. Most people don't have both. They have one or the other and you know, just balancing these types of people has been a challenge over the years, right yeah, of course.
Speaker 1:Well, I'd say you're doing a fine job of it, sir. I try. I mean let's, let's talk about the, the creative aspects of your work. I mean, you know, just kind of, you know, going back from where you started there, and we jump right up to what you're doing, what you've been doing this week, um, you know there's been a lot of change along the way, so would I be right in therefore saying that you were a DJ that transitioned into being a producer as well and kind of taking not just looking at songs individually, but opening up a door and kind of building your own tracks as well?
Speaker 2:Yes, I mean probably. If I look back on my career, my greatest regret is I didn't start that earlier. But I did move from. You know, I knew again as a businessman, I knew I had to get mixes out. I remember when I first started, how would I learn about DJs from the big cities? They'd have their mixtapes out right, and I realized I had to do the same thing. So I got, I learned it from a software perspective and I was very fortunate I was djing on a cruise ship at the time, so I had a lot of time to really learn this. And that's where, you know, I started mastering the software and I got good at making mashups and then I transitioned from making mashups and uh, dj mixes into original production, started started with collabs and just really dived into learning music production in a variety of genres, which to me has been very important. If you go to my Spotify, I have very different, very different releases.
Speaker 1:That's one of the interesting aspects, I think of being a DJ. One of the things I've always thought of is if we think kind of the right side of our brain being the creative side, the left side being the analytical side that we hear about. I often think that that is useful for music creators, whereby they create something and then they figure out whether they like it or not, whether they want to keep it or not. But I can't help but wonder if perhaps for a dj, it works in reverse, whereby you might hear something, let's say a vocal, an acapella, a loop or something, and then go, hey, I get this, I think I know where to fit this, and then you get creative. Is that an accurate description? It can be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's. It's really a variety. You know my I would describe my creative process as iterative. So sometimes, sometimes it's spontaneity, it's it's spontaneous, other times it's building something first and then, as you build, ideas come. So you know, I start with what I think is a good idea as a foundation, and then you know, and the best is when you I would call it synergize with collaborators, in this case with you.
Speaker 2:Know Trey Lorenz, who's the singer I'm currently working on the song with. You know he was fantastic. He sat here. How about this, how about this? He was fantastic. He sat here. How about this, how about this? And you know he's a singer. But when you have a guy that understands, even intuitively, music, that helps a lot. There's. There's nothing worse for me, when I want to collaborate with someone, I think it's like this, I think you know, and you're like well, I'm not inside your head, you're gonna have to be more descriptive. It's. It's kind of the equivalent of when somebody goes hey, I'd like a song. It kind of goes like this Do you know what I mean? So the more specific people can be, the more synergistic I find.
Speaker 1:That's a good point. So, therefore, if you were to, you know, start a creative project, is it that you like to have some kind of starting point, for example, you know, like a vocal idea or a chord sequence or something like that, or does it vary quite a lot?
Speaker 2:it varies. So here's what I like to do. I love to merge genres, I love to take ideas. I've been thinking like this from the very roots of my dj career, which is, you know, I liked house music and I liked hip-hop from the very beginning, so I always liked thinking of ways to combine house and hip-hop, for example. So ever since I've tried to like, like you know, the song that I recently released I don't know if you know david goggins, he's a fitness, oh right motivator. So I took samples of his voice and actually put it in a deep house song. I had an isochronic tones to it, yeah, yeah. So I mean, um, yes, your listeners might be able to tune into that. And so the the whole idea is, you know, taking people who love fitness and possibly like deep house music, or it could be, someone who likes deep house music didn't know who david goggins was, or vice versa.
Speaker 2:The whole idea is drawing people in into new and novel ways, but still a tone of familiarity, sort of a step by step. So in the case of this, with trey lorenz, um, I sat with him and Tika Mariah's other singer, and we brainstormed. Our first day I showed them Afro House and they were like, wow, they weren't really familiar with it and they're like old school R&B. And then they just started hey, what if we did this? I'm like man, that's such a good idea. So we're combining, like you know, old school soul music, r&b on an Afro house beat and it's really come together. I really enjoyed the process and I really like, so far with the product. You know it's not quite the finished product yet. We're about, you know, 75% of the way there. So it's pretty exciting to me to hybridize like that and in that process I come up with new ideas right, that's wonderful.
Speaker 1:And do you? I don't know if this is a silly question, because you you're a dj, so the answer might be obvious. But do you mix all of your own projects or do you outsource that to somebody else?
Speaker 2:like the mix and mastering. Um, I have outsourced, but I do it myself most of the time. Yeah, my goal is to be a full engineer audio mix master. The benefit nowadays is the software really can take care of a lot of the heavy lifting. And this it's. It's a. It's a strange convergence too, because expectations are actually lower now too. Right, being CD quality or record quality is not the same as streaming quality, and unfortunately, there's a lot more of a disposability to it all now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a good point, yeah, interesting. And so what about the kind of business approach to building your reputation as a DJ? You know there may well be, you know, the next wave of you know DJs out there that are listening to you right now, that are kind of going how do I get where he is, like that's where I want to be, like, what advice would you give to those people that are listening?
Speaker 2:So, I would say it depends where they're at in their career. So if they're just starting, the first bit of advice I would always say is learn as much as you can. So let's say you're a DJ, first and foremost, learn all aspects of DJ. If you're trying to and paradoxically you know when you're trying to be a, you know an electronic dj or a hip-hop dj the temptation is to just stay in that lane. But the reality is it's two things. It's very, very, very saturated. Anyone and everyone can dj.
Speaker 2:I, I, can teach you how to dj in less than a week and you'd be proficient. It used to take weeks, months to get even just proficient, let alone good. When you had even CD mixers took much more work and dedication. So now that that's the case, it's paradoxically led to less skills, because to be proficient now is very easy, but then to actually be diverse in that proficiency is much harder. So, like all these skills, these advanced DJ skills that I learned over the years, they're what carry me through now. They're the reason I do these.
Speaker 2:Plenty of other gigs that might not be what I want. When I was young I wanted to be an old school east coast hip-hop dj. You know now. I love doing all kinds of music and I never, ever at the time, would have thought like half my gigs now are country music and EDM, you know. So that's the first advice is learn as many aspects of the first the DJ game and then the business aspect of it. Learn the background skills, the sound tech skills, simple stupid stuff like don't show up on time, show up early DJs are notoriously late. Show up early, dress well, be professional that goes an amazing long ways with people, especially in the music business and, of course, be humble in it all. So that's that's for beginners out there. Literally start with that.
Speaker 2:Level two build relationships behind the scenes. They're, I would say, more valuable. Divide your time 50% social media, 50% behind the scenes, making the relationships getting out in person. Once again, there's that paradox Everybody thinks just DM and emails, but really they're not even a fraction as valuable as going and doing FaceTime. You know, because if you're I mean at my level I need to do stuff out of town most of the time. So of course that's not always going to be possible.
Speaker 2:But develop a reputation of always delivering to what you say you're going to deliver and that's going to get you made like to try and get to the point on social media to have, say, tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of fans is you're. You're facing a massive, massive obstacle. There's very, very few djs that can do that, but you know what virtually everyone can do. But they're not doing is the stuff I just talked about. So when you have a reputation of being professional, being reliable, being able to deliver on what a promoter or a club needs, that's going to get you in way faster and easier than trying to build up tens of thousands of fans online, like I don't even have. You know, I have a I would say a. My following is probably above average, but it's not extraordinary by any means. There's's DJs with much bigger followings than me and they get a fraction of the gigs, let alone the fees that I get.
Speaker 1:It's so useful to hear your thoughts, especially when we combine those two different levels that you're referring to there. So say, for example, you know a DJ that's maybe on their own. They're developing their skills, maybe at home and they're working on their own. They're developing their skills, maybe at home and they're working on their craft and they're building their library and also their mental library of knowing which songs they can turn to for certain things. Would the next step after that, at the very beginning, to be to put together a mix of what they can do and then go and talk to promoters at particular venues? That be, you know, a good way to start for people so.
Speaker 2:So I actually have taught this before and I tell I've come up with the number one thing to tell a promoter or club owner, because the standard thing is hey, I want to come dj at your club. What do I got to do? Or do you know what I mean? That would be the standard thing. I'd love to DJ at your spot and here's what I would suggest.
Speaker 2:When you come into a club, you go hi, I'm inquiring as to your current DJ situation. So that gets them talking and as they talk, you're gonna look for an Opportunity where you can add value. So If you're a beginner, where are you going to add value? It's not going to be, you know, headlining, it's not, but maybe you have a big draw. You know you have to find a way to add value that says I'm willing to do this, even if it's just being reliable, um, even if it's just being professional. That goes a long ways with people you know, and just showing that is big, because I this is what still blows my mind about so many djs is just they take such a casual approach to something like that they don't realize at the end of the day, like these owners have to make money or, you know, the roof over their heads you see, now, that's that's where your background comes back in and helps you right right and and also that's where you live up to your name as well.
Speaker 1:Knowledge, I mean that's you know these are pieces of gold dust for people. I appreciate it for sure. So so knowledge. We've heard about your background. We've heard about where you're at now, what you're working on.
Speaker 2:Tell us about your goals, moving forward well I have a sincere desire to connect people with music. I've seen what's happened with the polarization and the division online and I've got deep down, you know, understanding what's causing this stuff, and I think that there's solutions, and one of the main ones is music. I've seen the power to connect. I've been in arenas in Poland and Germany where I don't even speak the language, and I've got in arenas in Poland and Germany where I don't even speak the language and I've got everybody tuned in and we're on this wavelength.
Speaker 2:It turns out that science corroborates what I've learned in real life that there's something on a deeper and more profound level that's happening when we connect like that, and so it's my mission to take my music to that level, and so it's my mission to take my music to that level. So, like even my music, I produced the David Goggins song I was telling you about. I actually embedded what's called isochronic tones. Now, these have the ability to induce certain brain states. So I actually want to create, I created the song with the intention of helping create a flow of focus, whether you're running or wanting to study or whatever, and I haven't. Really. This is my first time actually talking about it publicly.
Speaker 1:So it'd be cool. I meant to ask you about it because I've never heard that term before. Isochronic tone.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, I believe there's a guy in the UK that does this too. It's pretty fascinating. What it is is it's a frequency that's pulsated very quickly and you can sort of underlay it in your music, and so you can create these flow states with your music, you know, among other stuff.
Speaker 1:Well, that falls in line with because Goggins is like a fitness guy, right, exactly, he's like a really hardcore fitness guy, right, right? So that presumably's quite a high energy track then it's.
Speaker 2:It's a deep house track and it's actually the way I designed it is. It's not a super intense track. The idea is to create sort of um a flow over time, so you want it for when you're running miles, not just sprints okay okay, yeah, and then I did a rap.
Speaker 2:So I did a few uh dates with ice cube, oh, wow. And when I did these dates with ice cube, I I decided I'm gonna rap for my first time. So I found this guy who made these incredible beats, so he actually made the beat and I did the rap on it and uh, again, it's about it's actually about mastering your mind, wow, in your brain. Yeah, using animal analogies oh, I love that. Yeah, I put them on a playlist. Yeah, I put them on a playlist called animal workouts. I can.
Speaker 1:I'll link it to you after we're done oh, thank you, okay, I will, okay, I'll put a link into that, into this. Okay, that's um, that's amazing, wow, um. And so what about like on the business end? What about like um the clear, do you like? If you've looked into clearance for Goggins's voice? Someone is there IP around that, or is it as far as I?
Speaker 2:know it's in the public domain, like I actually talked to a friend who's a music lawyer, so it's not a, it's a very. He said this isn't a typical thing because it's not a song, so that alone, um, and it's not lyrics. So he didn't even you know know how to categorize it so there's no, there's no protection there.
Speaker 1:As such, then okay, okay, because it was literally it's.
Speaker 2:It's literally a meme online. It's the who's going to carry the boats and the logs. You know a video that's been used.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's been seen by tens of millions so that, therefore, is perhaps an example of what I was trying to refer to earlier, whereby you heard something and then thought hang on right, I know where that could fit and here's the interesting thing, you're right and it combines right into what I was saying, which is I built the song first, and then afterwards, that epiphany came.
Speaker 2:I was like you know what crazy idea. And then it was, but it was only after I built the song. Wow, I originally made the song that uh, beyonce made this. Uh, you can't break my soul, you can't break you know that. Oh, yes, a song on the deep house beat, yes, and that gave me the idea of something like that, and then the david goggins one, maybe somewhere in the deep recesses of my mind. That's why I'm a believer in meditation and clearing your mind, because again, it comes back to understanding the brain. I'm a big fan of learning how the brain actually works, and it works very much like a corporation. There's different departments and sometimes they're good at talking to each other, sometimes they're not, sometimes they really do hate each other. So, like these feelings people get when they're like you know, there's parts of me that are confused, and it really is, because there's different parts of our brain that are fighting for your conscious attention, and it's it's fascinating topic. That's a whole other episode.
Speaker 1:That's really interesting. I love the, the links between music and philosophy and the way that you look at things. I think you know such an interesting perspective on on on this and where this sits in the wider subject of life. I absolutely love that about you. It's, it's, it's wonderful, Thank you. So finally, I want to I want to this might seem like an odd thing to say, but I really want to congratulate you on your name, Right? I think it's so clever, Like when I first kind of saw, saw the name like written down, I was like, oh, I was like, oh, Noel DJ, right, Because I guess that's what a lot of people do. And then I looked at it again I was like, ah, knowledge, Okay, it's so clever, yeah, and you know it's interesting.
Speaker 2:Very few people get it. I'm glad you got it. Very few people get it.
Speaker 1:It took me, you know, a second look and I thought that's wonderful Because in an age where you know it's difficult to try and be unique, especially with branding and names, and you know that so many artists that I know are just constantly like oh, can I use that name? What about if I put this letter in the capital? Who's taking it all that right? And I'm like I've never heard anybody do that with a name before.
Speaker 2:And right, and that was the thing. There's a few other dj knowledges at the time, right, and I'm like, because I used to be just dj and the knowledge you know, the conventional way, okay, and so I said to myself, I've got to figure out a way to do this that brands myself, and you know branding is so important, right? Yeah, you're really good at that. I try, you know it's. It's getting harder and harder to stick out nowadays, right?
Speaker 1:yeah, well, I, I guess. So it's a constant challenge and it's all a part of our evolution, I guess. But I think you're a really really fine example of it. I think you do a really really really good job at it, and not only you're great at what you do, you are what we call in the uk a bloody good bloke, because it's been lovely to talk to you. It really has. Um, I really, really really appreciate your time. I know how busy you are. I've seen what your schedule looks like.
Speaker 2:Hey man, it's this particular week like I've barely been on social media or anything because I had such limited time with Trey. He leaves Today's going to be the last day I'm going to see him, oh right. So we really had to get as much in as we could.
Speaker 1:Wow, and you still found time for me.
Speaker 2:Of course, as we could wow and you still found time for me.
Speaker 1:Of course, man, of course. What a dude. Happy to do it. I'm happy to do it, that's nice, that's well. Hey, listen, good luck on that project, good luck on everything you're doing, and it'd be good to check back in with you further down the line and see how you are and see how you're getting on. I, you know, I really, really appreciate what you've done here today thank you.
Speaker 2:I really appreciate it, as Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:Oh, what a dude. It was nice to talk to him, really really nice guy and very, very, very knowledgeable and very good at what he does. Do you know, one of the things that I like to do on this podcast is to explain things in a simplified fashion, if I can, and also the other thing is to explore the perspectives of others. It is in that that we kind of learn more about music, about the business of music, about the people in it, you know so, anyway, I hope that you enjoyed that. I hope you learned something from knowledge and be sure to check out his links and his music and everything that he does. Okay, okay, until next time, everybody. May the force be with you. The Music Business Party. The Music Business Party.
