The Music Business Buddy
A podcast that aims to educate and inspire music creators in their quest to achieving their goals by gaining a greater understanding of the business of music. A new episode is released each Wednesday and aims to offer clarity and insight into a range of subjects across the music industry, all through the lens of a music creator for the benefit of other music creators. The series includes soundbites and interviews with guests from all over the world together with commentary and clarity on a range of topics. The podcast is hosted by award winning music industry professional Jonny Amos.
Jonny Amos is a music producer with credits on a range of major and independent labels, a songwriter with chart success in Europe and Asia, a senior lecturer in both music creation and music business at BIMM University UK, director of The SongLab Ltd and the author of The Music Business for Music Creators.
www.jonnyamos.com
The Music Business Buddy
Episode 50: Q & A with Jonny Amos
Fifty episodes! What started as a mission to help music creators better understand the industry has grown into a thriving community, and I couldn't be more grateful for your support along this journey. In this episode, I answer questions sent in from the community of listeners.
This milestone episode tackles the questions you've been asking about the music business - the confusing parts, the frustrating parts, and the parts where terminology seems designed to bewilder newcomers. Ever wondered why your distributor sends you most of your streaming money while PRS collects another portion? Confused about what "music publishing" actually means (hint: it's not uploading your tracks to Spotify)? I break it all down in straightforward terms.
The relationship between AI and music creation emerges as a recurring theme throughout our Q&A session. Rather than taking a doom-and-gloom perspective, I share insights about ethical AI companies that properly compensate vocalists and musicians while exploring how these tools can enhance rather than replace human creativity. From Voice Swap to Scalar 3 and DAACI's Generate, we examine practical applications for today's music makers.
For those of you struggling with the relentless demand for social media content, my advice might surprise you. I share an insight into how my former band built a passionate fanbase, along with practical strategies for finding common ground with potential listeners without falling into the trap of constant promotion.
Whether you're wondering how to approach a booking agent, navigate relationships with producers, or simply understand why finishing projects matters more than starting them, this episode delivers actionable answers to questions from real music creators. No jargon, no gatekeeping - just straightforward guidance from someone who's been there.
Got a question I didn't answer? Reach out - I'm here to help you navigate this industry and turn your passion into a sustainable career. Here's to the next fifty episodes!
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The Music Business Buddy. The Music Business Buddy Hello everybody and a very warm welcome to you. You're listening to the Music Business Buddy with me, johnny Amos, podcasting out of Birmingham in England. I'm the author of the book the Music Business for Music Creators, available in hardback, paperback, ebook format in all the major bookstores and online, amazon, etc. I'm a music creator with a variety of credits. I'm a consultant, an artist manager and a senior lecturer in music business and music creation.
Speaker 1:Wherever you are, whatever you do, consider yourself welcome to this podcast and to a part of the community. I'm here to try and educate and inspire music creators from all over the world in their quest to achieving their goals by gaining a greater understanding of the business of music. Ok, so I've got to start by saying this everybody is episode 50. Wow, that's, uh, that's a milestone, right? One of the things my wife often says to me is you know, you, you never stop and kind of you know, congratulate yourself, give yourself on the pat on the back for this achievement or this little thing over here where, and I don't, I just want to plow on and get through that. So I can't wait to just plow through the next 50. But a big thank you to you everybody for being with me, right? 50 episodes it does feel like a bit of a landmark, I suppose, because you know podcasts they come and they go, right. And we're still here, right, we're still doing this. So onwards to the next 50. Thank you for being here, everybody.
Speaker 1:Okay, so on to today's theme. Well, actually it's a multiple kind of theme thing today because I'm going to be doing a Q&A. So one of the things that I often do, especially on social media, actually is to ask people say, what questions do you have about the music business? You know, what kind of problems do you come across or what questions might you have? Now, I know that we've got ChatGPT and Google and we've got loads of different options as to how we can look things up, but sometimes that can be confusing, it can be overwhelming, because there's a lot of different answers out there, right? So if you feel that I am a trusted source and hopefully you do then well, I am only a human with opinions and I get things wrong too, as we all do, right. But um, hopefully, if you put your faith in me, as some people have today, then my answers may be useful to you. So, yes, I've got a bunch of questions sat in front of me. I've not got any predetermined, premeditated answers to any of them, actually, in fact, I've only just taken a quick glance at all of them, as I put them together in a little document. So here we go.
Speaker 1:Okay, first question. By the way, I'm not going to mention anyone's names, because there's been a couple of people that have said, oh, can you not mention my name? So, uh, that's totally fine. So I thought it's probably easy if I don't mention anyone's names. Um, so question one okay, so can you explain why prs, uh, are collecting my song royalties if my distributor is, uh, yes, okay, so if you break down your um, your, you've got to separate the song and the recording here, right? So 80% of the streaming money comes to the recording and another 20% goes to the song that's been recorded and released, right? So the PRS PRS for Music, as a sort of collective management organisation, will collect on that 20 percent. Now, out of that 20 percent they split 10 is collected by prs and the other 10 is collected by mcbs. So what your distributor is sending to you is the other 80, and that relates to the recording. Hopefully that answers that question.
Speaker 1:Next question uh, how do ai companies remunerate music creators? Yeah, well, that's a big question. I will answer how, but before I do, it's worth saying that some don't and some do, which is kind of both crazy and wonderful. So some of the big kind of AI companies. By the way, when we talk AI oh my God, it's such a big area, isn't it? Like there's reactive AI, there's predictive AI, there's generative AI. It kind of feels a bit weird to kind of just answer a question about general AI stuff, but I'm going to try, though, because I do know where this question is leading to.
Speaker 1:So, how do AI companies remunerate music creators? Ok, so I'm going to concentrate on those that do and kind of just bypass those that don't. And when I quickly bypass those that don't, by the way, I think, as time goes by, we're going to start to see way less companies out there that are kind of doing big machine learning based off copywritten material. That is a problem, right, it is happening. It's been happening for a while, but there will be laws that come in and clamp down on that, and eventually it will become a thing of the past, right? So I think what a lot of the big tech companies are doing now is actually to remunerate music creators and, and the way I see it, kind of working is in two different ways, right.
Speaker 1:So I can talk about some of the companies that I've interviewed on the podcast and those that are coming up soon actually on this podcast, and that is this there's two ways that they're remunerated. There are those that are remunerated if their work is used and there are those that are that kind of gave their research and their input on a kind of buyout level. So just to kind of go slightly deeper into into the latter part there, so if you've had people that have kind of contributed to a piece of research, they get paid a fixed fee and then their research is there to design and build a system that becomes useful to people, right? So therefore, it's kind of like comparable to ghost producing or ghost writing, where there's no public credit for that person or those people, but they were remunerated for it. Now there's also another side to this which hopefully answers this question how do ai companies remunerate music creators? Well, I think a good example of that would be a company, uh, like voice swap, right? I don't know if anybody's ever heard of them before. Um, I've got an episode coming up, actually quite soon, where I'm going to be interviewing uh, declan mcglynn from voice swap, and they have got it down to a T. So what they do is they will.
Speaker 1:The way the software works is that you can record a song and then you can replace the vocals on the song with somebody else's voice. Now the way they actually remunerate the creators for that is brilliant, because they'll have like a huge bank of different vocalists. And so let's say, if I open up a Pro Tools session folder and I've sung a song and I want to replace it with someone that sounds a lot better than me, then I pay a fee to do that and then a part of that fee goes to that singer. So let's imagine that that singer has spent, let's say, I don't know, a day or two days recording or however long the recording takes place in order for the ai voice to be molded from um. Then if I do a day or two recording voice, then that person's voice he or she or they get paid every time their voice is used by somebody. So the idea is that they have the most popular voice on that platform and they do really well out of it.
Speaker 1:So not at any point. Would that voice ever be sort of given away, you know, on a gratis or free sort of level, you know. So music creators that wish to use that voice would pay a fixed fee and then a portion of that would then go to the tech company. The other portion would go to the singer that recorded their voice originally. So not at any point would they ever just be able to get used for free. So that is that's my best answer to that question right now.
Speaker 1:And I think what voice swap do there is kind of how do I put it? I think it's a strong indication of where things are headed, because it is at times in the AI world kind of like the wild, wild west right, where it's kind of like you know it's brand new and people are kind of just testing the boundaries and finding loopholes around the law and that kind of thing, and actually, you know it's really annoying a lot of people, especially, you know, those that whose copywritten works and copywritten recordings are being used to create. You know machine learning. So you know those whose copywritten works and copywritten recordings are being used to create. You know machine learning. So you know that's wrong, we know that, but the future does not look like that. The future looks like what I just explained, so hopefully that helps to understand how recordings are, how music creators are actually remunerating people that create music and assist with AI learning.
Speaker 1:There is another aspect to this, by the way, as well, and this is I've been slightly privy to some information of some companies that are kind of starting to move this way as well, which is this when a piece of a recording is sampled or used on a creative level in some way, in a new recording, it's going to become a lot easier to actually identify and track that piece of recording within a new one. So that will go back and you know, look at all sorts of different historical uses of sampling Like that. Technology is definitely. For some people it's in development, for some people it's kind of ready, so that is something that's going to come in soon as well. So therefore, it become trackable and traceable. If somebody were to sample a recording and then look to release it, so that will be another way where music creators and I should say really rights holders, would be also further remunerated.
Speaker 1:Oh, that was a long answer, wasn't it? Sorry, guys. Next question uh, I've heard people talk about publishing their song on instagram and then they talk about publishing their music on spotify. I'm confused. Can you help me with the right terminology? Um, yeah, I can. Uh, yeah, it really confuses me as well. So, um, just to clear something up here, right? So the word publishing here is, you see it, a lot used on YouTube and social media, and it kind of frustrates me a bit because, for anyone that doesn't know, music publishing is not actually music publishing. What? Yes, I know, music publishing and distributing music to be released are two actually really quite different things. So that's where the terminology gets confusing, because people would say, oh, I've published my track on Spotify. It actually actually make that sentence actually makes no sense at all. Right, I know what people mean when they say it, but it actually makes no sense.
Speaker 1:Let me break this down to three pieces. First of all, music publishing is to do with the business of songs. Right, it's got nothing to do with recorded music. It's to do with the songs, the intangible songs, the business of songs, how they're exploited, how they're collected, how they're distributed, how the royalties are distributed to music publishers and songwriters, etc. But to publish something now, to publish something is to prepare to distribute right. That's what it actually means, but in music it doesn't mean that.
Speaker 1:But the trouble is, people use the term interchangeably and I think sometimes the answer to this is in education, because people do it innocently and they don't realise that they're actually confusing people. So when people talk about publishing a track on Instagram or publishing a track on Spotify, I think in most times what they're actually doing is misusing the word publishing, because publishing, as I mentioned, in music means something different. So when people actually refer to and I'll say the term publishing on Spotify or publishing on Instagram, what they really mean is distributing their recorded works through to streaming services. Now, as a part of that, let's say, for example, you go through a distributor like Ditto Music, distrokid or whoever, and you aggregate that music through to the stores. You'll also get an option to be able to deliver it to social media platforms TikTok, instagram, et cetera. Some distributors will do that at an extra fee, some won't charge any extra for it, and then you'll get the option to be able to use a content id system. Now, what that really means is that you'll be able to track anytime anybody uploads that song onto, let's say, facebook or youtube. Youtube and facebook. Both have different content id systems, so it's to track the recordings, not the songs, but the recordings. So when people talk about making something accessible on instagram or publishing something to instagram, that is a byproduct of delivering a song to a store via a distributor and that's very different from just kind of posting something on instagram, because it's not the actual recording of the song, it's not tagged inside that. To tag a recording of a song inside a post on Instagram, it would need to be delivered and it's only going to happen if you go through a distributor who can actually do that. So usually distributing or making music accessible on the social media platforms would come as a result of putting it on the stores and then going oh yeah, let's send it to social media platforms as well. Hopefully that answers the question.
Speaker 1:Breathe, johnny, as a music producer, do you mix inside of your project session? Oh, this is a creative question. I like it OK. As a music producer, do you mix inside of your project session? Sometimes, but not usually. No, just in case anybody doesn't understand the question.
Speaker 1:So what this particular person is asking me is if I've got, like you know, an Ableton session open and there's all the workings out of the track in there, a MIDI, an audio. Am I mixing inside of that project session? Generally no. So the way that I like to operate and this is not the right way, necessarily, but I know a lot of Pro Mix engineers that do it exactly this same way is to kind of have like a project file where all of your workings out are done, with your plugins and your MIDI and your audio clips and all the rest of it, and then you print that out in STEM, so you export all of the audio of all the individual stems and then open a new project before you start your mixing session. Now I'm not saying that's the right way, but that's certainly the way that I've learned how to do things.
Speaker 1:It's sort of, um, it is a way that a lot of pro mix engineers like to work. It's also kind of mirrors how music users work with music on a sort of editorial level. Say, for example, a music supervisor, they will often like to have the breakdown of the stems or group stems or individual stems of a project, and so it's really good to kind of work in that way. It's a very flexible way of working. It means that music can be edited easily also. I think it kind of increases a sense of objectivity when you see all of your tracks individually, without any processing on, all the processes been printed onto them and you can balance everything out and then mix it separately.
Speaker 1:That's how I do it, that's how a lot of other people do it. So that's a long answer. But the answer is no. Do you mix inside your project session? No, generally not. There are some occasions where I do. Let's say, for example, if it's like a quite you know straightforward kind of, let's say it's like a singer-songwriter or a folk recording where there's maybe only like I don't know seven or eight tracks actually in the door, I generally won't bounce that out. I'll usually just keep that inside of the door, usually Pro Tools, and record it and mix it in that session. But if it's a busy session with lots and lots and lots of tracks, I'll definitely do that and just kind of stem everything out, clean it up, bang, re-import it into a new project and start again. Long answer there, sorry, but short answer. Yes.
Speaker 1:What is the most common problem that you notice in music creators that are trying to climb the ladder? Oh, ok, probably not finishing projects, I think. Actually I've noticed this quite a lot in the modern era, where a lot of people start projects, you know, start a recording project, you know, maybe it's like an A, b section or eight bar, 16 bar thing, and they don't finish it and they'll just kind of save it and keep it in their door. Now, there's no crime in that, but it's not a fruitful way of working. I think it's really good to try and finish projects, even if it's, you know, just a kind of not a finished article, but just something that you can export and it can represent an idea of something. Um, I think, I think it's a big problem that, uh, that I see in these days that a lot of people just don't finish projects, and I think that that kind of finishing projects is kind of what creates legacy, because legacy is created very often by, you know, catalog, um, and so if we don't have a catalog and we just have like a bunch of different ideas that are not really that presentable, it kind of limits what we can do in terms of creating opportunities. So, uh, yeah, yeah, what is the most common problem?
Speaker 1:Probably that, yeah, how did you get your first publishing deal? Um, that was, uh, as a result of, uh, a publication called song link international, which is still going. By the way, it's run by a, by a guy called david stark, who's? Who's a lovely guy, very well connected, really good, good guy. Um, it's a publication that runs out of london but it's an international publication and it's still rolling, still going, right. Um, so that how it works is that you would, um, you would get you, you subscribe, right, you pay a fee and you get like a bunch of leads from people looking for songs and it kind of tells you like, uh, you know what they're looking for, what kind of songs for what kind of artists.
Speaker 1:So, um, I started pitching songs through that and then, as a result of that because you, you don't go through like a middle person or a website or a platform it gives you the contact details of managers and artists and labels and stuff directly. So I would pitch to those and and, as a result of that, I then started getting songs placed and then, and then a music publisher, you know, kind of approached me and said, oh, you know, you've done this and this and this, this. Do you wanna come and work with us? So that was what it was. So, um, but then the publisher that I signed to. After that, which was a few years later, uh, they didn't come to me. I went to them and I pitched myself, uh to them. That was uh tg management publishing in denmark. And I reached out, uh to john that runs that company and I said, uh, I've heard good things about what you do. Should we have a chat, you know? And we jumped on Skype and yeah, that was it and it was a good relationship for a few years.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I think sometimes people talk about you know, wait for things to come to you, and other people, myself included, would say maybe not, maybe. Just, you know, reach out and uh, connect with people. So yeah, that answers that question, hopefully. I want to become an artist manager and I've sent a contract to a band that I want to work with, uh, but they're delaying in signing it. What should I do? Um, well, I would do a trial period. That's what I would do. I wouldn't ask them to sign anything yet, I would just do a trial period. A trial period is quite a common thing, actually, for a lot of artist managers at all sorts different levels. So think of it as a kind of a period of time whereby there is no contract between you and you just work together to see how things go.
Speaker 1:You know, sometimes if we kind of get a contract in the way of something and then all of a sudden, you know it feels very, very serious and it can kind of, you know, scare people a little bit. It shouldn't, but it kind of can and uh, and then sometimes it, you know, can kind of formalize things. By the way, some people would destroy me for saying that, because because it's always good to go, you know, let's have a contract from the start. But I'm trying to give you the reality here. I know loads of managers that that just have not signed an artist to begin with. Maybe, you know, sign them further down the line once they've kind of got some business together, especially if it's a manager that's working with an artist that you know they'll say you know, I'll take my 15, 20 or whatever, but they can't, the artist isn't really kind of making money yet, and so the manager will do things to try and make the artist money so that they can take their commission from it. Right, that's a good sort of noble, honest approach. And so in a situation like that, you know, maybe it's good to just have like a preliminary period, maybe three months, maybe six months, maybe a year. It's all negotiable, it always is. But yeah, maybe a preliminary period, a trial period, is what I would recommend there. It certainly would not be out of the norm to do that.
Speaker 1:Is AI going to take songwriter jobs away? I don't think so. No, I know there's loads of people that say yes, it is, but it hasn't yet under my observation, right? So, um, I think what it does more so is is it it assists songwriters? Um, I don't know if you heard my uh interview uh last week with anne marie from uh Darcy, but they're a big AI tech company. I've got a couple of other interviews coming out soon as well where I talk to big leading AI companies, all of which are doing things in a very sort of ethical fashion. But even with all of these sort of you know, ethically cleared AI data sets or ethically researched kind of models and stuff, even with all that in place, there is still a sense of isolation sometimes, because I think a music creator can, sometimes the tools can encourage creators to work alone instead of working with other people, so that is a downside.
Speaker 1:So I suppose in that regard, if let's say, for example, I can finish a song with some AI tools on my own rather than work with somebody, then that is taking a job away from what could have been a collaborator, but it certainly needs a songwriter to steer it right. Because, um and I've mentioned this before, but for anyone that's never heard this before, it's always worth remembering that um, the book always lands with the music creator, right, you know. So if we're working generatively on a level with different ideas and we've got, uh, you know, a computer or an app or piece of software kind of going, hey, try this or try that, here's some different ways of doing things um, then you're still going to have to make a decision as to which bits you keep and which bits you like. And you know it's a human that does that and it's defined by your taste. So, um, is ai going to take songwriter jobs away? I don't think so. I think it's just going to be a question of coexistence.
Speaker 1:A few months ago, I did a recording and I was happy with how it went with the producer, but now I want to revisit the recording session files and have a new producer work on it with a fresh approach. Can I do that? How should I do that? How should I handle it, as I don't want to hurt the original producer's feelings. Yeah, good question. By the way, that's really good that you're questioning that.
Speaker 1:I would say that's a positive thing to begin with, because it means that you know sometimes we do this right, we capture a sense of raw energy, a really good song is recorded, but then just something doesn't quite go right with it. Maybe you know the mix isn't quite there, or maybe there's some parts that you know just feel a little flat or whatever it is. Um, there's nothing wrong whatsoever with taking those original stems and then taking them to another producer, right, that's. There's nothing wrong with that at all. I think how you handle it is the thing to look at, which is kind of what this question addresses. So, okay, so how I would handle that is I'm the producer here very often, by the way, right, so I wouldn't be offended if anybody asked me that, but I know sometimes some producers can be offended by that. Here's how I'd handle it. I'd say please can I have the stems from this session, because I want to collaborate on this with somebody else and I just want to explore what options are out there for this song and what can be done, as opposed to just like not releasing it. So you know, that's a good thing to do.
Speaker 1:I think if there's been no payment originally between the artist and that original producer, then I think some kind of co-production credit at least should be expected. However, if the music creator paid and I don't know whether this person did but if they paid that original producer and really what the producer did was kind of engineer it and record it and balance things out and stuff, you know that's, that's an art form, a well-respected art form and a well-worthy task. But if it was just that and nothing else, kind of creatively um, then um, and they paid them for it, they shouldn't necessarily, um, the producer shouldn't necessarily, um, expect, uh, production credit. The reason for that is because it's two, two reasons. Number one, it's an engineering credit and they were paid out for it, and secondly, because there would be another producer coming on board afterwards to further embellish it.
Speaker 1:I think one of the key things here is in transparency and openness between all parties. That can sometimes be the grey area, but I think, you know, if an artist came to me and said you know, I really like artist came to me and said you know, I really like what we did, but, um, can I have the stems? Then, um, they'd be asking because they want to go and rework it somewhere else. Um, which is absolutely fine, of course it is. I, I don't like the idea of kind of producers holding, you know, artists to ransom over their stems, like it's just. It's horrible, isn't it? So, uh, no, nothing wrong with that. Can you do that? Yes, how should you handle it? Uh, ask the original producer for the stems, say that, tell them that you don't want that recording to sit in a dormant fashion, gathering dust, not doing anything. You want to revitalize it and you want to work with somebody else who can work with you on a collaborative level, and you need the stems in order to be able to do that. Um and um, you know, I, I think as long as you communicate it like that, generally people don't have a problem with it, but it's certainly a good thing to be doing. It's a good way of kind of querying, it's good. It's good critical reflection as well. You know, kind of like right, the vocals are there, the guitars are there, the drums sound cool, but the rest of it that could get worked on. So, uh, yeah, and then maybe look at a co-credit system, if if that were the case between two different producers.
Speaker 1:Uh, next question how can I get a booking agent? Uh, yeah, that's a short, simple question, isn't it? With quite a lot of different answers really. But, um, I would say this to begin with um, who do you want to be your booking agent? It's a really good question, isn't it? I, I would.
Speaker 1:I would research who you would like to be your booking agent. It's a really good question, isn't it? I would research who you would like to be your booking agent and by doing that you can kind of figure out. You know who the most suitable people or companies are. I think once you've got an idea of who they are, it feeds your understanding of the landscape around you and what they can do, because what they will be expecting from you is important, and it's good that you have an understanding of what you expect of them. It's really kind of only at that point where expectations meet that you can start to do business. But let me simplify my answer for you a little bit more.
Speaker 1:How can I get a booking agent? Well, there are those that would tell you not to worry about it, to just keep gigging and just keep playing live, and they will come to you. And sometimes that happens, but sometimes it doesn't. So my school of thought is slightly different and it's this you go to them, you go to them and you demonstrate what you are already doing and how you would like to expand upon that by playing to a newer audience, and how you think you can go about doing that. That then gives a proposal for them to understand and accept.
Speaker 1:If you go and take that and say, look, I'm only gigging in my own town, I want to get a bit further out, can you help me? No, that's a really poor pitch. The same circumstances, presented differently in a different pitch, look very different. So, for example, this is what I'm doing, I'm playing these gigs here, and if you think about it, you go, I am only playing this town, okay, well, okay, maybe before I go to that booking agent, I'll start to get some gigs further afield. So you, okay, maybe before I go to that booking agent, I'll start to get some gigs further afield. So you start to book uh, you know other gigs slightly further afield, right, and not be snobby about where you play ever, right? So, just you know, keep playing.
Speaker 1:I can tell I toured with a multi-platinum selling producer once that he said to me I'll play anywhere, I'll play McDonald's, I don't care, and he sold millions of records. It was a great attitude. It's always stayed with me. I think that's something that we can learn from as well. Um, so yeah, to try and book as many gigs as you can to show that you kind of don't need a booking agent, that in itself kind of propels you to the awareness of booking agents. But I think, when it comes to that pitch to booking agents and I think you should, by the way I think it's good to try and pitch yourself to different partners in the music industry, and a booking agent is absolutely an important partner. I think to do it without a manager is harder. So maybe a good step would be to get a good, a good manager first. But also, I think if you were to go to those booking agents and just explain what it is you're trying to do, if you can demonstrate that you know who your audience is and where the kind of artists that you would compliment and and please, uh, then I think it shows them that you understand where you sit in the landscape of the industry, which in turn helps them to understand where to pitch you and where to where you're placed. Um, I think at that point that it becomes a more viable pitch.
Speaker 1:What AI? Oh, another AI question. What AI tools do you endorse or recommend? There's quite a few. Actually, I think it depends. The recommendation would depend upon who the person is that's asking. So if it's a music creator, which probably is in this case, then I really like Scalar 3 by plug-in boutique. I think it's brilliant. I think it's uh, it's really really cool. Um, uh. I also really like um uh, generative uh or generate by um by darcy. I think that's really really good. Like d-a-a-c. A CI that was from Anne-Marie's conversation with me last week, but I knew it before then it's a really good tool, for both of those tools are really good for kind of, let's say, for example, you've got a chord sequence and you want to flesh it out into a fuller song and you want to kind of figure out ways that the piano might be played or the ways that the guitar might be played, or you want to make the bass line a little funky or whatever it might be. It will kind of generate midi patterns to you and kick out suggestions, things that you can then just audition quickly and go, yes, I like that or no, I don't like that, drag the midi region and apply your own plugin or sound to it. That's a great way of doing things.
Speaker 1:I mentioned voiceap earlier as well. Voiceswap are also coming onto the show soon. I think they're really good. I think one of the ways in which songs present themselves is through a strong vocal. It's often the most important element for the average listener and I think if you've got the right voice on a song, um and uh, you know, then it can present itself very well. I think voice swap lends itself really really well to that and they're really ethical in how they do things and how they remunerate, uh, music creators. So, uh, so yeah, also row x, row x audio really good. Uh, they've got some really good. This is kind of more reactive ai. So they're really good at kind of um, mixing and mastering and they'll, you know, kind of import your stems and you've got this kind of auto mix function on there which will uh work on a sort of reactive and sort of predictive level, um to you know very quickly kind of mix and master songs and um, from what I've seen from that and and and the tests I've run on it and what I've seen other people do with it, it is really, really impressive. Um, so, yeah, those are the ones that I would recommend, but there's so many on the market. Um, uh, yeah, there's so many to pick from. I think it's. I think, before you even start to think about which ones you'd use, it's kind of good to go. What do I want it to do? You know, once you figure that question out to that, if it is generative stuff, if it is, I want it to help me to build my songs, but with my idea that I've got, but that just assisting me, then, uh, then Darcy and Scalar 3 are really good options for that.
Speaker 1:I'm an artist and the hardest thing I find to do is to create social media content constantly. Any advice? Yeah, I feel your pain there, because that's a big problem for a lot of artists, isn't it? Any advice? Yeah, here's my advice Stop trying to sell. There's a lot of people that you know. We hear a lot of things that you know. Click here and do this and subscribe to that, and it's almost become kind of common language, hasn't it? So I would avoid. I know a lot of marketeers that would say well, you need a call to action. I'm not sure you do Not for artists. Anyway, you know you're trying to sell a person and people just as much as you are music and recorded products. So I think sometimes, like you know, just being a little bit more human can really really help.
Speaker 1:So what I really mean by that is not necessarily talking about music the whole time. I think there are certain kind of shared interests, and music is a shared interest, right, and the other things that attach to that. So, um, so, for example, not necessarily talking about music all the time is actually quite a good thing. In fact, um, one of the things that I do when I kind of go to sort of networking events, conferences, that kind of thing, um, the common byproduct is that we're talking about music or music business, but that doesn't mean that we have to talk about it all the time. One of the things that I often bond with people over is actually not talking about music at all, but talking about I don't know sport or the weather. Right, I'm British, we talk about the weather a lot, just, you know, remembering people's names, remembering kids' names, all that kind of stuff, but anyway, it all links to this, the answer to this same question, right?
Speaker 1:So what are those kind of creative touch points? What are the things outside of music that make you you? If you don't know the answer to that, that's okay. Just dig around until you find it, because it'll start to become clear. Just don't question it too much. Look around you, look at the things that are in your pockets, look at the things that are in your bag, look at the clothes that you wear, look at the films that you watch and look at the kind of friends that you've got. Those are the things that will tell you things about you that you might share values in with other people. It's at that point that you then start to go ah, maybe I could do this over here, maybe I could talk about that.
Speaker 1:The other week, when I interviewed Mimi Kamara, she was talking about how a lot of the artists that she worked with also have, like their YouTube channels one's cookery and one's this and one's animation, and you know, those shared interests really help to kind of group people together and create shared interests so that not everything is about the music, so that it is about other things. That could be anything at all. It could be video games, it could be fashion, it could be cookery, it could be bonsai trees, it could be anything you want it to be, but just finding those share points between an artist and their audience. Sometimes you actually build that audience as a result of those share points, and so it's got to be real, hasn't it? So just look around, look at the things around you and just think right, what is making me me and how is that connecting me to other people? Otherwise, it just turns into a sell, sell, sell. I've got a new single. Go and stream it, like everybody else does. So those? That is my advice.
Speaker 1:You used to play in a band called Red Star Rebels. You had a massive fan base. How did you grow so quickly? And what happened in the end? Wow, this person's done their research. Yes, I did used to be in a group called red star rebels. Um, okay, how did we grow so quickly? Right, there was kind of two things.
Speaker 1:Um, first of all, this was 2005, so it was the sort of the peak time of the myspace boom. So, if anybody's not familiar with myspace, it was kind of like the early incarnation of social media. It was before facebook, but it was after friends reunited and it was the first time that there was a music social media platform and and it worked incredibly well for about two or three years and it were, you were able to kind of you know, uh, build a fan base through that it was, it was unseen, it was, it shocked us actually, how, how, how effective it was, you know. So we'd be able to go to I don't know, let's say we were going to, um, I don't know leeds, brighton or different town, different city, and we didn't really have a fan base there. We'd be able to kind of target people based upon their interests and kind of send the messages without them realizing that they were being spammed, right, and then they would turn up at the gigs and you'd have 40 people, 50 people, 60 people there that never heard of you before but learned about your music as a result of this message on myspace, and then it kind of grew and grew and grew. So that was something which you know is just that's untouchable. You can't do that anymore, right? Um, but that was a thing that was a very, very important tool, um.
Speaker 1:Another thing as well in the early days is that we um, so we were all a little bit older, right, we'd already been in bands and done this, and that we were all kind of like you, in the wrong end of our 20s, let's say, and we took it very seriously. So we stayed behind closed doors for six months. We didn't do any gigs. That's when we first got together so to get all the material right, to get everything tight, we just did that behind closed doors for six months and we used to film ourselves and watch it back and go. You know, are we active enough? Are we moving enough? Like what happens if you do that? And so by the time we actually got out there and started gigging, we were ready and it worked really, really well Because we would be that band that you know that other local bands were terrified of, you know, because they didn't want to go on stage after us, and that all became. That was all because of how prepared we were by the time we got there, you know, um, so, yeah, it worked. It worked well for a while.
Speaker 1:Um, what happened in the end? Um, what did happen in the end? I think we grew a little. We kind of grew a little bit. Um, um, I certainly grew a little bit tired of it. You know, when you're on a fast train and all of a sudden it stops, it has an impact on you. We had lost our drummer. He didn't die, he's alive and well, but he, you know, touring had taken its toll on him and when he left I missed him and it wasn't the same anymore. And then our bass player left and then there was, just like the original, three of us left and with sort of replacement members no disrespect to them and it just the synergy of it wasn't quite the same anymore. The original energy that had been our point of inception was no longer there and the road had taken its toll on on us and um, and it all kind of ended. And but I'll tell you, we're, we are, we're, we're all still very, very good pals. We see each other, um, as regularly as we can, even though we live in different parts of the country, and I think that in itself is success. Um, we did, we did have a rather, you know, you know, sort of passionate, fanatical, uh, fan base, and a lot of people used to come and support us and to witness, you know, playing to sort of two people in a pub to then playing, you know, sellout shows within a year was utterly remarkable and something that I think we'll always be proud of, forever. So, you know, we didn't become household names, we didn't become millionaires, but we did everything else in between, you know, and it was wonderful. So, yeah, thank you for that question, by the way, because no one ever asks me about that. So that's very, very sweet. That means you've really done your research, thank you.
Speaker 1:Music publishing confuses the hell out of me. In one sentence, what is it? Oh, you don't know me very well, do you? I can't answer anything in one sentence because I talk too much, but I'm going to try. So here we go. Music publishing is the business of song copyrights. There you go. That's one sentence. I'll just elaborate on it a little bit. By the way, if you're really unsure, like this person and like many, many people, as to what music publishing is, I did an episode six right, called what actually is music publishing, where I just kind of break it down over sort of 20, 25 minutes or something. So do feel free to scroll back to episode six if you want to go into that in a little bit more detail. But to summarize, um, with more than one sentence.
Speaker 1:I'm breaking the rules of the question here. Um, it is. Uh, it's the business of songs, right? So it's the intangible, the songs, not the recordings, the songs. So the songwriters and songwriters can just, you know, own the copyrights themselves, or they can kind of split off a piece of the equity of that song and assign it or license it to a music publisher who can then, you know, take a commission on it and work it right. Who can then, you know, take a commission on it and work it right, and by work it I mean, you know, get it covered by artists or get it into TVs or TV shows or films or games, or administrate on it, collect on it, chase up royalties. You know that's music publishing.
Speaker 1:So it kind of links back to a previous question earlier on in today's episode where I talked about what is publishing and what isn't, and I wish with all my heart that music publishing was called something else other than what it is called. It gets its name from way back in in, you know, in in the bygone era where songs were published through sheet music as a way of kind of communicating and selling a song to a member of the public, right? So, you know I think it was tin pan alley in, uh in in new york city, a bunch of kind of bohemian music creators who were kind of you know, uh, the first sort of commercial songwriters in a way, I suppose, that were creating music that did not fall inside of the religious or classical realm and they would, uh, publish their music, music by way of sheet music, and the name has never changed since. So it doesn't really actually mean to publish your music anymore, it's more so the business, the administrative business of song copyrights. Then maybe that was a better sentence. Well, that was far more than one sentence. Anyway, I hope that helps you there a little bit.
Speaker 1:Okay, so there you go, a little bit of a Q&A for episode 50. If you're still here, still listening to me, my gosh, that says that you are dedicated about your passion and pursuit of creating music and turning it into a business, and that is why I'm here to help you to do that. So if you have questions and you would like them answered maybe it's me that you want an answer from, or maybe it's one of my guests do not hesitate, reach out, send me that question, I will send you an answer. Okay, until next time. Everybody, thank you for being here. Here's to the next 50, and may the force be with you. The Music Business Party. The Music Business Party.
