The Music Business Buddy
A podcast that aims to educate and inspire music creators in their quest to achieving their goals by gaining a greater understanding of the business of music. A new episode is released each Wednesday and aims to offer clarity and insight into a range of subjects across the music industry. The series includes soundbites and interviews with guests from all over the world together with commentary and clarity on a range of topics. The podcast is hosted by award winning music industry professional Jonny Amos.
Jonny Amos is the author of The Music Business for Music Creators (Routledge/ Focal Press, 2024). He is also a music producer with credits on a range of major and independent labels, a songwriter with chart success in Europe and Asia, a senior lecturer at BIMM University UK, a music industry consultant and an artist manager.
www.jonnyamos.com
The Music Business Buddy
Episode 66: An Interview with K-pop A&R Music Publisher Kristin Hurst
Unlocking the secrets of the East Asian music markets requires insider knowledge, passion, and a forward-thinking approach. Join host Jonny Amos as he speaks with rising music industry professional Kristin Hurst, who serves as A&R for K-pop, J-pop, and C-pop at both DWB Music and ARC Music Publishing.
Kristin's remarkable journey began with a university K-pop songwriting camp that caught the attention of industry veterans, launching her career at the intersection of Western songwriting and Asian music markets. She shares invaluable insights into the mechanics of pitching songs internationally, including the critical importance of keeping all your production stems (even from years ago), understanding cultural nuances, and delivering the "shock factor" that Korean Label A&Rs crave.
The conversation reveals fascinating differences between Asian music markets, with Kristin noting how K-pop has evolved from following Western trends to becoming a global trendsetter itself. She explains the "JK hybrid space" of Japanese music with Korean influences, and how C-pop sometimes blends traditional Chinese instruments with contemporary production. For songwriters and producers looking to break into these lucrative markets, Kristin offers practical advice about building a strong catalogue, developing genuine passion for the genres, and focusing on exceptional craft rather than just chasing placements.
Whether you're a songwriter, producer, or music business professional, this episode provides a masterclass in understanding tomorrow's global music landscape. The future of music is increasingly being written in Asia – are you ready to be part of it? Reach out to DWB Music or find Kristen on Instagram (@KristenHurst_) or email at kristinhurstcontact@gmail.com if you're a writer or producer looking to connect with these thriving markets.
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The Music Business Buddy. The Music Business Buddy Hello everybody and a warm welcome to you. You're listening to the Music Business Buddy with me, Jonny Amos, podcasting out Birmingham in England. I'm the author of the book the Music Business for Music Creators, available in hardback, paperback and e-book format. I'm a music creator with a variety of credits as a writer, producer, I'm a consultant, artist manager and a senior lecturer in both music business and music creation. Wherever you are and whatever you do, consider yourself welcome to this podcast and to a part of the community around it. I'm here to try and educate and inspire music creators from all over the world in their quest to achieving their goals by gaining a greater understanding of the business of music. Okay, so in this week's episode I am interviewing Kristen Hurst. Now Kristen is an A&R for the East Asian markets for DWB Music and also a music publishing A&R for ARC Music, so she works predominantly on finding sourcing the right songs for the right artists. She's also a superb example of the next generation of music industry professionals. She's right at the start of her career and she's already pretty heralded for what she does. Now.
Speaker 1:This episode also kind of neatly follows on from two weeks ago, so if anybody that can remember, I interviewed the head honcho of DWB Music, Greg Watts, and I had an interview with him. That was two episodes ago, in episode 64. And he talked about Kristen. He said you know, Johnny, you really should meet Kristen. You need to talk to her. She's great, she's brilliant at what she does. So I said, okay, great, let's do it. And that's how this interview came about. And I can see exactly why Greg sent Kristen my way because she is outstanding, she's superb, she's so good at what she does and a fine example for anybody wishing to enter the music industry. Ok, so I'm going to pass over to the interview. Take note and enjoy. Oh sorry, guys, Just one quick thing. I have a message to play to you from Kristen that we recorded just after this interview and I wanted to play it at the start of the episode because she has an open door to anybody that wants to submit music to her. Have a listen to this message. Here we go.
Speaker 2:If there are any writers, any producers out there who are looking to get into the Asian market, whether that's K-pop, j-pop, c-pop, please do reach out. You can reach out to DWB Music. You can find us on Instagram. You can find me on Instagram. Ewb Music you can find us on Instagram. You can find me on Instagram. I'm just Kristen underscore Hurst, very open. We are looking for new, fresh talent. So if you're interested, please do reach out.
Speaker 1:Super Okay, nice little opportunity for everybody there. Okay, now, without further ado, I will play the interview. Here we go everyone. Kristen, welcome to the music business buddy. It's really good to have you here. How are you?
Speaker 2:I am good. Thank you so much, Johnny, for having me on your amazing podcast.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you. Well, thank you for being here. It's good to talk to you. You know, one of one of the many things that excites me about the music industry is getting to connect with the next generation of music professionals, and and you very, very firmly fit into that because you're at the beginning stages of your career. It's a very exciting time and so it's it's good to talk to you. You know, at this time, whilst you're, you're here and and and available and, you know, not too overly busy yet you know.
Speaker 2:I think also this is my first podcast ever, really.
Speaker 1:Yes, wow, hey, this is an exclusive. I like getting exclusives, kristen. That's good, that's even better. So you are, you know, is it fair to say you're at the beginning of your career as an A&R and you know what is it that led you to wanting to work in the A&R side of music publishing?
Speaker 2:So I would say, yes, it is the beginning of my journey in the music business side of things. So I would say it started at university. So I studied music, so I studied songwriting and music production. So my whole goal was to be a songwriter. I always wanted to be a songwriter and that's what I've wanted to do since I was 16. So actually, when I was at uni, I started having thoughts you know, once I finish, once I actually start working towards becoming a songwriter, what am I going to do for income? Where am I going to work? So it was sort of in my mind that maybe I could work at a label or some sort of music business type company, but I didn't know what exactly that could be or what I would do. It was just like a very early thought. And then actually my boss, who I currently work for, so that is Greg. He's the founder of DWP Music. So I actually met him when I was at university.
Speaker 2:So during my last year I formed a camp, I did a songwriting camp and I had 10 students over two days. So I was sort of reaching out to all these different companies and Greg was one of them and he helped me, you know, with opportunities to pitch the music we made at the camp. And then we would have meetings and he would sort of ask me so what do you actually enjoy? Do you enjoy the business side more? Do you enjoy the creative side more? Is the business side something you're thinking about? So I think it's. It was these little things. He was saying that. I was like I think I should actually maybe start taking this seriously. And then he was like we have a position opening up. Are you interested in that? And I was like yes, that sounds. Oh, wow, that sounds so cool. I'll go for it.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's brilliant, Wow, okay. And so just for anybody listening right now that's thinking, who's Greg? Then, greg was actually featured two, two, two episodes ago, um, um, and you know where I talked to him about music publishing, um, so that's that's. That's why I really wanted to talk to you quite closely. After talking to greg, actually, it's like perfect, you know, um, that's really cool. So so was the, the camp, that first camp then that you put together. Was that like like your sort of final project at university?
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly that was my final project. Well, it was a part of it. It was a part of it. It was all based on K-pop. So that's what I do now. I am an A&R for the Asian market, so I did a K-pop sort of final project and the camp was a part of it. We did a K-pop camp.
Speaker 1:Ah, fantastic on the camp was a part of it. We did a k-pop camp. So, yeah, ah, fantastic, okay, oh well, that that leads us nicely onto the role that you're playing now at dwb, because I know greg thinks very, very highly, he speaks very highly of you, kristin, you know um, and, uh, you know and I'm sure all the writers on the roster do too um, so what's your role like now? So you, you kind of you're like the a and r for sort of like the east asian, east Asian markets. Is that fair to say?
Speaker 2:Exactly so. I am the A&R for K-pop, j-pop and C-pop. That's mainly what I do, what I focus on and, yeah, I love what I do.
Speaker 1:Wow, good for you, and so have you been interested in those markets for quite a while.
Speaker 2:So I would say, in terms of like k-pop, I did used to listen to it, um, in about roughly 2016, but it was only like one group. So black pink because they were very big, I would say I would say k-pop wasn't very big, you know, in the 2010s. It only really blew up globally from about 2020, from my opinion that's my perspective when it really started getting very global, especially when BTS started getting big. So I did know about it, but I got more into it when it started getting global. And then actually, funny enough, when I was at BUM, there was a masterclass on k-pop. So there's this incredible producer, songwriter called Azodi. You might know him, I'm sure a lot of people do know him.
Speaker 2:He actually came to BUM London because I studied at BUM London and he did this incredible masterclass and he was like this is how you get into K-pop, this is how you write for it, this is how you pitch your music, and I never knew any of the stuff. I had thoughts about writing for K-pop. This is how you write for it, this is how you pitch your music, and I never knew any of the stuff. I had thoughts about writing for k-pop artists, but I didn't know how to do that. My mind was on writing for western artists, you know, like Tate McRae, ariana Grande, all these you know western artists that I loved. So when he came and I was like it was this whole world that just opened up and so much opportunity. So that's how I sort of started.
Speaker 1:Wow, good for you. Ok, so then you started to kind of learn some of the mechanics behind the pitch process and that kind of thing and, ok, wow, gosh. So let's have a look at that pitching process and what it kind of looks like from your perspective. So you correct me if I've got any of these elements wrong, kristin. So, um, you receive the leads from the labels and the sub publishing partners as to the kind of the type of songs that they want for their artists, and then you send those leads out to the roster of writers. Um, is that, is that accurate?
Speaker 2:so, yeah, that is the exact process. So labels um will send us leads, we then send them out and then we pitch, we review the tracks and we pitch. So that's the exact, exact process great.
Speaker 1:Okay, because when I was talking to greg recently we were talking about, you know, the role of sub publishers and the sort of the importance of sub publishers, um, in general, but especially for those marketplaces, um, you know, um, because it also helps with some of the clearance, the clearance process as well. So you'll need to, kind of I guess you'll need to look at, you know, if someone's sending you a song. You know what are there. Are there other co-writers? What do the song splits look like? You know, do you ask for sort of tracks and stems and stuff to be available as well, or do you leave that until further down the line?
Speaker 2:I would say we do leave that further down the line. We don't necessarily need the stems straight away, only if a song goes on hold or it does get cut. Then that's when the labels start asking us can we get the stems? I would say most writers are pretty good with that. They always keep their their stems.
Speaker 2:But in the case that a song that was written a couple of years ago and then stems go missing, that does actually become a problem. So actually recently we had a cut in Japan from a song that was written a couple of years ago and they had most of the stems but the guitar stem was missing. So that actually became quite a big issue, because us as a publisher, when we pitch it's, we're basically selling a product and we've made a promise that we can deliver on that product on the track, on the stems. So now we've sent in the song, they've they've given us a big thumbs up. They want to cut the song, they want to release the song. So now we've sent in the song, they've they've given us a big thumbs up. They want to cut the song, they want to release the song, but now we don't have the stems.
Speaker 2:So there's always the case that if you don't have the stems, they can just cancel the whole cut and they'll move on to the next song. So we were lucky enough that they said, okay, go and record the guitar, because it was the guitar stems that were missing and they actually needed it. What they needed the guitar stem within two days. So for us, we were under a lot of pressure, and even the writers they needed to go back and re-record the guitar with the original guitars. So so if you are a writer, a producer, do please keep your stems in case, even even if if a track is was written 10 years ago, always keep your stems because actually, again, we recently got a track go on hold that was written in 2013. So I think that just shows how far back in your catalog a song can actually get cut in today's you know decade.
Speaker 1:So yeah, crikey me, yeah, that's's always back up your computers, everybody. That's very insightful. It's, I think, as well with. I mean, we're in an age now where you know, like somebody asked me last week actually, kristen, they said oh. Because I said oh, do you have the stems for that project? It wasn't to do music publishing, it was something else. And they said no, no, but I can stem separate it.
Speaker 1:You know, in ableton I was like no, not really, because you can only like, get the vocals, the bass, the drums and then everything else. So that's not quite like it's brilliant that you can do, that's great for djs, but like, if you're, you know, looking to sell a product to a label that want to then own it, like they're going to need all the pieces. You know exactly um, and so you know, even if the guitar is a group, they might want them separately. Or you know, um, I think that's something that's sometimes perhaps misunderstood, because you know, of course, on a traditional level, music publishers are dealing with the song and the songwriters and the song splits. But of course, if you're pitching, you know, to the k-pop marketpop market, c-pop, J-pop markets, invariably they want the track as well as the actual song, don't they?
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's so important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah it's. That's a good. That's a good little kind of pre-warning for everybody that wants to get into that marketplace. What about the translation process?
Speaker 2:no-transcript um, so they usually bring in uh, so if it's a k-pop cut, they'll bring in a korean translator, um, who does all the lyrics. And actually, funny enough, the koreans themselves and even the japanese, they all write their demos mostly in english. That's what you'll find. So, yes, so it's, and I guess it comes from the global exploitation of of the tracks, because now most of the tracks are all in english. So really, when you are writing your songs for asia, it should all be in english, because they actually prefer to do all the lyrics. They want to do all the lyrics. They want to make sure that the words they're saying are marketable. There's no um profanity. They want they, they want to do the lyrics. But actually, when you're writing your lyrics, it doesn't mean that you that you don't have to put enough effort into the lyrics because it's going to be rewritten. You should put a lot of effort in the lyrics, because sometimes they take the lyrics fully on. They won't even bring on a translator.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've known a few songs like that over the years, and even songs that have been translated. You know, like SM Entertainment, for example, I know a few writers that have worked with them and they'll come back and they'll say, right, we need to change the story a little bit so that we can fit the melody. But what is the song about? We'd like to know. You know, where did it come from? And there's a lot of care, isn't there? It's not just kind of like mass market, you know, cookie cutter stuff, they're interested. The A&Rs they care, don't they?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, they do. I think also they want the backstory, just in case they can use it in the marketing.
Speaker 1:So yeah, ah, I never thought about that. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, so when it comes to kind of connecting that song with the artist, and then there's connecting the artist's version of that song to the audience and they're okay, so it's part of the press, I never thought about that before. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, interesting, yeah, it is. Wow. From your perspective, are there any sort of differences between you know, pitching for CPOP for China, j-pop for Japan and c-pop for china, j-pop for japan and k-pop for korea? Are there any sort of differences from a songwriter's perspective?
Speaker 2:so I would say there's definitely quite a big difference when you're pitching and when you're writing for these different markets. I would say, in terms of k-pop and J-pop, they can be very similar but they can also be very different. So we have what's called the JK hybrid space, so that is Japanese songs that have a Korean influence. So K-pop is more Western influenced and then Japan is. It can be Western influenced, but it takes from Korea. So some songs are very J-pop. So J-pop is very rock influenced. It has its own sort of style.
Speaker 2:So not everyone can pitch for J-pop because it's a cultural thing. But then they also have their JK hybrid releases, which are sort of more towards mixing K-pop and J-pop. So I would say, yeah, there are big differences. And I would say, as a songwriter, the biggest thing you can do for yourself when you're writing and when you're pitching is to know who you're pitching to and also have some sort of a passion towards these genres. I think that's really, really important and also that also can help you have a lot of success if you know the market you're writing for. So I think that's the biggest thing yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1:That can be easily overlooked sometimes. Um, if you've got songwriters that say, oh, I could, I could do k-pop, and then they're trying, they realize there's so many nuances to it actually that you go, actually, no, this is really different from what I'm used to. You know, especially how rhythmic it can be and all that kind of stuff. What about the Chinese market? It always seems to me, christine, that the Chinese market, it must be so much bigger than we actually think it is, because you know it's China, isn't it? You know the population, the landmass. I mean it's absolutely huge, isn't it? It seems DWB have always been good at kind of getting in early and looking ahead and you know, like Greg and Pete have always had that, and Paul as well, to be fair, I guess a little bit as well. But what about? I mean China. It seems like that seems to be an area of strong interest. Now for DWB. Are there any kind of hallmarks to the Chinese sound? Is there anything that can be kind of generalised about their interests in music?
Speaker 2:So I would say CPOP is actually more similar to K-pop. So again, a lot of Western influence, but actually CPOP it's divided Again. So there's the Western type tracks, but then there's also the CPOP that they ask for an Oriental style, so they ask for more Chinese sounding instruments. So I'd say, if you end up targeting those leads, I guess you need to know a little bit about, you know the theory behind Chinese music, but a lot of our leads for CPOP are very, very similar to K-pop.
Speaker 1:So that's perhaps something that's switched a little bit more in recent times. Also interesting about the traditional instruments. So if you've kind of got like a hybrid of sort of Western, you know kind of electronic drums and bass lines, but then laden with some of the more you know kind of traditional Chinese instruments, that might be a good formula then.
Speaker 2:Exactly yes, and I think it also it varies on the lead really. So sometimes they really want a Western type track. So let's give an example If they're asking for songs for an artist like Esther Yu, they usually ask for very western stuff. They want Ariana Grande, they want Tate McRae, they want Sabrina Carpenter's Espresso. You know tracks like that. So I think it really just depends on the CPOP artists you're pitching for. So yeah, that's.
Speaker 1:That's another big thing do you know I'm just thinking out loud here, kristen, presumably you know you kind of get like quite a lot of k-pop exclusives because you're getting these leads through and then it kind of gives you a strong indication as to where pop culture is going to go a year from now yes, so I would say in terms of the leads actually.
Speaker 2:so the A&Rs are the ones creating the leads, so actually they're the ones researching all the fresh music from the West or wherever they're getting their new inspiration from. But actually at DWB and even at so, I actually work for another company. Greg has founded a new venture called ARC. He might have talked about this in his podcast with you.
Speaker 1:Oh, I don't think so no.
Speaker 2:OK. So he does have a new venture, a new publisher that he's partnered up with Hideo Nakamura from Sound Graphics. So I work for both companies. So actually, so, from both companies, what we do is we do what they do, we do what the labels do. We also have to look ahead.
Speaker 2:So I think, even as writers, it's not always about leads, because, if we think about it, the A&Rs at the labels are setting leads. Yes, they're also fantastic, they have a lot of knowledge and research. But as writers, you should be doing the research yourself. You should be creating music that is trend setting. You shouldn't.
Speaker 2:Actually, what we try to do is we tell them not to follow leads, because every single writer is now writing to those leads. If they're asking for a song like Sabrina Carpenter Espresso now they're gonna get 2000 songs all sounding like Sabrina Carpenter's Espresso, and that's not what we should be doing. That's not how you get a cut. You should be giving them the shock factor. Especially the Koreans, they love the shock factor when you're pitching. So we, as writers, should be on top of the trends. We should be looking at all the fresh music, listening to music daily. Sometimes you find a lot of writers don't listen to new music and you can actually tell in their pictures, because their songs sound a little bit outdated. So you can actually tell, you can distinguish the writers who's listening to new music and who's not, because the ones who are on top of the trends are creating the trend-setting music. So I'd say that's, that's a, that's another big thing yeah, wow, that's very interesting.
Speaker 1:And I know a thing or two about, about hide nakamura and um, and you know he, he's got a lot of power right. You know he's got a lot of influence, um, in in japan, um, so, and also, you know, from what I gather, very good at looking ahead and kind of going you know what's this going to look like in a year, rather than looking back and chasing things. That's very interesting. I think generally in the East Asian markets they're always a bit better at that than we are in the West. You know, we kind of we tend to be very reactive in the West, don't we? You know a lot of.
Speaker 1:I was interviewing a lawyer on here the other week and she said west, you know, we kind of we tend to be very reactive in the west, don't we? You know a lot of um. I was interviewing a lawyer on here the other week and she said you know, and she's, she's in america. She said labels are reactive, you know, and I thought well, yeah, yeah. But I thought actually, you know, in in korea, japan, china, you know, far less reactive and more proactive, is that fair?
Speaker 2:I would say so. Yes, I would actually say maybe in terms, in terms of music actually, um, asia does take a lot of inspiration from the west. So I but but actually recently, I would say instead of taking inspiration from the west, I believe especially k-pop is now trying to turn into the trendsetters themselves. That's where I see K-pop going Interesting. So I feel like a few years back, a lot of inspiration was coming from the West, but now K-pop is becoming the trendsetter itself. That's why, as writers, again, you can't be mimicking what's been done. We have to be the writers that are setting sounds that have never been heard before.
Speaker 1:Wow, that is so insightful, that makes so much sense. Because you know, as a producer writer myself, you know I've been on tons of camps over the years and it always felt to me like, yeah, like we're. You know, the K-pop briefs that were coming through were just like so Western. All of a sudden this was a few years ago, you know and now to think that it's like right, they are fully caught up and now they're getting ahead. I've never thought about it that way before. Wow, very, very good. So what about the camps? So this started for you by you setting up a camp and then being proactive about that. Are you still involved with piecing together songwriting camps now?
Speaker 2:Yes, so we do quite a few camps a year with um, both dwb and arc, so actually our next actually we have two camps upcoming this month- all right wow so yeah, that's we do that's good camps, and do you?
Speaker 1:do you find because I remember, like during the pandemic and whatnot, that a lot of camps went online, um, and you know, and some people maybe even started their life in camps by doing online camps and you know, and there were others that were used to doing it the more traditional way. They were like oh, I can't do this online camp thing. You know, people were sharing all sorts of different ideas around that Is it. Do you find the camps now are more kind of online or more all together in one studio location somewhere, or does it vary?
Speaker 2:I would say both. So actually, funny enough, our two camps this month one is online and one is in person, so I think it just depends on who you're trying to bring in. So for our online camp, we have quite a few Japanese trackmakers coming in, some Korean writers as well coming in, so of course, you can't fly out so many people you know every few months. So these online camps are so, so good at connecting the writers with each other. So I think I think they're great. Of course, in-person camps are always, you know, the best. It's always amazing to see people and work with people in person. But these online camps, don't doubt them, I think they can be just as magical.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think so as well. Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. Good for you. And so we mentioned briefly about your music education before. It was obviously fruitful because it led you to thinking outside the box, building something that then connected you to the opportunities that you've got now and that, by the way, kristen, that says so much about you. So well done you for that. It's brilliant. What was your music education like? I mean, you know I'm connected to BIM, right? So I guess I'm slightly biased because I love what they do. I've seen so much success come out of BIM, right, so I guess I'm slightly biased because I love what they do. I've seen so much success come out of BIM over the years. But what was you know? How important was your music education in setting you up?
Speaker 2:So I would say, in terms of my music education, I think it was. I think it's the reason I'm here now. I think I think it was the biggest deciding factor of what I'm doing now. So I would say, at when I was at BUM, I enjoyed it so much, um, and I think the biggest thing that came from it was connection. I think, you know, in terms of the modules we learned and everything we did, that was amazing, but the biggest thing was connection and I think a lot of people when they talk to me and they ask me should I, should I go to university for music? Should I study? You know, I?
Speaker 2:I think a lot of people when they talk to me and they ask me should I, should I go to university for music? Should I study? You know, I? I think I can learn a lot on YouTube or like on online courses, but actually it is so incredible to meet people at a music university because you'll find that the students you were studying with at uni in 10 years time, those are the people leading the industry. Yeah, all the connections you make, even if it's at a music college, those are the people who tend to end up being the people working at warner, at spotify, at sony, at universal. So all those connections as students are just. I think they're the best thing ever.
Speaker 1:That's really good to hear. Yeah, that's exactly how I feel about it all as well. Good for you. So final question for you, kristen is quite a wide question in some ways, so just whatever kind of comes to your mind, you know, do you have any tips for songwriters that wish to, you know, start pitching songs for, you know, the k-pop, c-pop, j-pop markets? What tips would you give to them?
Speaker 2:so in terms of tips, I think I could talk for quite a while. There's a lot of tips I could give, but I think the most important thing I think I did mention this in the podcast the very first thing, especially if you're looking to get into the Asian market, I think, is to have have a liking to it, have a sort of passion. I think sometimes you do find writers who see the see the open door in Asia and think, okay, I'll send my catalog songs there and hope, hope that they get cut, which does work. It can work, um, but I think, in terms of longevity and having a lasting career in the asian market, you do have to have that passion. You do have to. You do have to know the groups, you do have to listen to them. A lot of successful writers charlotte wilson, cello tron all these people who are very successful in k-pop, um. Jessica pierpoint she actually started with greg at dwb and she now lives in lives in Korea. She is such a big K-pop fan, so I think does she live in Korea now?
Speaker 1:oh wow, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2:Yes, so I think, if you do have that passion, I think it'll, it'll really help you forward. I think and I think that comes with every single industry if you are passionate in what you do, it takes you, it just it just takes you further, whereas if you don't really have that passion you have that passion I don't think anything can really happen. The next thing I would say so as a writer, producer, songwriter when you're actually looking to get in, to pitching your stuff, a catalogue is the best way to go. Have a catalogue of really strong songs that you can constantly pitch. That's the best thing. Even when you're reaching out to whoever, having a catalog to show what you can do, to show your versatility, that's the best thing. Because when you do reach out, even if it's on instagram, if you're reaching out to an a and r, having just one song is not enough. You need at least three to five songs when you reach out to these people. And then the last thing I would say so let's say, let's say now you're in, you're in the industry, you're working in k-pop. Let's say you, you have these great connections.
Speaker 2:I would say one another major thing is don't always have your mind on just getting cuts. Of course, having goals is a great thing. You have to have goals to achieve goals. But if your mindset is just I want to cut, I want to cut, I want to cut in k-pop, it will come. But the biggest thing you should have is is your craft, making the best music possible. Because if you just look at the end of the process You're leaving, you're forgetting about the whole journey, and the journey is making incredible music that lasts years. So I'd say, focus on just making the best music you possibly can and the cuts will follow.
Speaker 1:That's brilliant advice, absolutely superb. Yeah, gosh, you know, despite your young age and the beginning of your career, you are so knowledgeable Kristen, you really are. And talking to you I find inspiring because you know, I can already get an idea of how your career is going to grow and how your reputation is going to grow, and it's very exciting and you know, yeah, good for you.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, johnny, and thank you so much, you know. Um, yeah, good for you. Thank you so much, johnny, and thank you so much, you know, for having me again. My first podcast, this, I think. When you invited me, I was. I was like whoa, a podcast. Never done this before, so excited, and even even my mom. I told her about it and she was like a podcast why are you going on a podcast? I think even even even my mom I don't think she truly understands what I do fully because she's not really into music that much. So it's it's, it's kind of shocking when I tell her I'm doing this, I'm doing that, I'm doing that Because I think I think even even when I started, when I said I want to go study music at uni, you know, I think I think you can get a lot of negativity like will this work? Why are you studying music? I think a lot of people face that, but I think now that something has actually come from it, my mum she's proud?
Speaker 1:I'm sure she is. Does she live in Zimbabwe? Yes she does. What's your mum's name?
Speaker 2:Elizabeth.
Speaker 1:Elizabeth. Elizabeth, hopefully you're listening. I want to tell you how well you've done raising this fine young lady right. She's loved here in britain and we are just as proud of her as you are.
Speaker 2:So well done thank you so much, john.
Speaker 1:Johnny Kristen, it's absolute joy talking to you. Thank you so, so, so much for doing this.
Speaker 2:No worries, hopefully, hopefully we can do this again soon.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. We can Thank you, kristen. You know what. What a lovely episode, what a I mentioned this earlier, but I'm going to say it again everybody A fine example of an emerging music professional, right, somebody that has such a great attitude towards their work. You know, clearly not afraid of, you know, rolling up her sleeves and getting hard work done. You know she is very, very well loved and respected at DWB Music and, I boldly predict, in further places, in further fields in time to come. So I really enjoyed talking to Kristen. I learned a lot and I hope you did too. Okay, that's enough for today, until next time, everybody, have a great day and may the force be with you.
