Episode 71: Understanding The Role of an Artist Manager

If you’ve ever wondered what a great artist manager really does—and how to know when you’re ready for one—this deep-dive lays out the playbook with clarity and zero fluff. We break down the day-to-day reality of management across business strategy, creative development, and the soft skills that hold a career together when schedules get messy and deals get complex. You’ll hear why the best managers behave like translators and tacticians, connecting A&R, booking, PR, marketing, and finance into one focused plan that preserves your voice while growing your audience.

We talk timing and traction: what signals tell you it’s time to seek management, which metrics matter beyond vanity numbers, and how to present a compelling offer instead of a hope-and-a-dream DM. You’ll get practical routes to find the right fit—from researching similar artists and mapping their teams, to tapping the Music Managers Forum, filtering industry directories, and discovering ambitious new managers inside universities and contemporary music institutes. We also tackle the big comparison: proven experience versus raw passion. The truth is you need applied momentum—someone who either knows the path or will build it fast.

Money and agreements get straight talk too. We cover typical commission ranges, sliding scales, what counts as commissionable income, and how expenses and recoupment should be handled before emotions get involved. Trials, contracts, and even handshake realities are on the table, along with the one factor that outranks everything: human fit. If you want a manager who can turn your vision into a road map—and keep you profitable without losing the plot—this guide gives you the questions to ask and the steps to take. If it resonates, subscribe, share with a friend who’s manager-curious, and leave a quick review telling us what you’re looking for in a dream manager.

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www.jonnyamos.com
https://themusicbusinessbuddy.buzzsprout.com

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Email
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Chapters

• 0:12 Welcome & Purpose
• 0:52 Today’s Focus: Artist Management
• 2:37 What Managers Actually Do
• 6:33 Types of Managers & Styles
• 9:13 When Do You Need a Manager
• 12:27 Finding The Right Manager
• 16:34 Directories, Forums, And Networks
• 19:25 Experience vs Passion
• 22:00 Networks That Move The Needle
• 23:41 Trials, Contracts, And Reality
• 26:18 Key Takeaways & Closing

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:12

Hello everybody, welcome to you. You're listening to the music business buddy with me, Johnny Amos, podcasting out of Birmingham in England. I'm the author of the book, The Music Business for Music Creators, available in hardback, paperback, and ebook format in all major bookstores and online. I'm a music creator as a writer-producer with various credits. I'm a consultant, an artist manager, and a senior lecturer in both music business and music creation. Wherever you are and whatever you do, consider yourself welcome to this podcast and to a part of the community around it. I'm here to try and educate and inspire music creators from all over the world in their quest to achieving their goals by gaining a greater understanding of the business of music. Okay, so in today's episode, we're exploring the role of an artist manager. Now, this is not a subject that I've looked at hugely on the podcast. Um, if we go all the way back to the beginning of the when the podcast first started, one of the first people I interviewed was Denise Baton, an artist manager that I know very well. And it was a really, really insightful interview, and I learned a lot from listening to her. I hope you did too. If you haven't listened to that, circle right back to the start of the podcast and have a listen to it. Now, purpose of today's podcast is to kind of go a little bit more general on it, to be able to understand who an artist manager is, what kind of people excel at that role, when is the right time for you as an artist, perhaps, to find a manager, and how do you go about doing it? And what should you expect when you actually get there? Okay, it's all in today's episode. Let's get going. Okay, so the first thing to say is this I am an artist manager myself, right? So I come at this from a place of compassion and understanding. Also, as uh, you know, as a as a past recording artist, I had several managers. So uh my place of experience on this feeds me into kind of talk about this, but also my observations of others, you know. I know a lot of artists, I know a lot of different managers, and I've talked to them quite a lot about what they're up to and how they're finding things, how they're navigating the landscape of change and etc. So, you know, when I talk about this subject, it comes from a kind of hopefully a fairly sort of well-rounded perspective. Also, in my book, uh The Music Business for Music Creators, which I really don't plug that very often, right? Because, you know, it gets annoying, right, when people plug stuff all the time. I don't want to be that guy. But if you have got it or if you are interested in it, art uh chapter seven in the book uh talks about what do artist managers do? And I should actually use that as a bit of a reference and anchor point whilst I explain the role of an artist manager and what it really entails and how you go about finding the right one for you. Okay, let's get rolling with it. Okay, so artist managers work on behalf of the music creators that they represent, right? By promoting their music, running their business affairs, guiding them through their careers, right, with a sense of purpose, maybe some mentoring, certainly a lot of strategy. Managers are not always, but usually quite experienced professionals, right, who have played, you know, kind of previous roles in the music industry, which means that they know what is needed to actually manage an artist very often, right? That's not always true. Sometimes you get people that are really young and emerging and hungry, and that works too. Um, managers must have a pretty well-rounded skill set and knowledge base as they, you know, they they have to combine an understanding of all of the business aspects of you know, recorded music, uh, marketing, music publishing, publicity, uh, the live sector, digital growth, you know, and they also have to have kind of you know interpersonal skills, right, soft skills. They must be able to resolve conflict and communicate, negotiate, be positive, right? Bring the best out of people. You know, combine, you know, this with also the ability to listen to songs and identify their faults, their strengths, their possibilities, their routes to market. And suddenly you have a much, much smaller pool of music professionals who can actually excel in that very kind of hybridized role of being a manager, right? So the duties of managers, you know, they could probably be subdivided into sort of business duties, creative duties, uh personal duties, but it's going to depend, you know, on the type of manager uh and also the needs of that artist, right? So some of the typical duties of managers can be, as I mentioned earlier, the guiding of the career, right, of that music creator. Also uh negotiating good deals, right? The best deals, uh, and also that includes fees as well, negotiating on fees, knowing what to go in at, knowing what to, you know, not when to knowing when not to go too high, when not to go too low, that's very difficult. That's something I struggle with a lot sometimes, but anyway, uh advising on career decisions, right, and strategies, um, understanding uh how to gain press attention, how to harness it, how to manage media relations, also working closely uh with with ARs, right, to coordinate, you know, um a strategy. Um collaborating also with booking agents, that's a really big part of a of a of a of an artist manager's uh you know gig because they have to manage schedules quite a lot, right? They also have to deal with promoters, uh to you know, when it comes to scheduling, you know, sort of live appearances, tours, festivals, there's a lot to it, there's a lot of people involved, and they have to manage that entire process, right? Including all of those different kinds of beneficiaries, all those different stakeholders. Um, also, you know, booking and arranging creative and recording sessions with studios, with engineers, with producers, with songwriters, with performers, you know, sometimes a lot of the roles that I'm kind of saying here, you you might think, well, you know, isn't that done by like the label? Isn't that done by an AR? Isn't that done by I don't know, a booking agent? And sometimes the answer to that is yes, and sometimes it's no. But whatever it, whether it's a yes or a no, the artist manager still has to oversee that process and be informed upon every single aspect of them. There's also, you know, keeping artists in a position where they can grow, and most of all, be profitable, right? I haven't even mentioned that, have I? You know, I know it's not all about money. I know I say that a lot in in uh in this podcast, but you know, it's not all about money, it is also about legacy. But for it to work, you do kind of have to make money, don't you? Otherwise, you have to do other stuff that makes you money. So uh, you know, being profitable is of course important. Okay, so there are also different types of managers, right? So, you know, there are some managers who represent recording artists that, you know, as I've alluded to there, but there are also managers who manage producers uh or or songwriters or recording engineers, mix engineers. Um, some managers might be more sort of genre specific, while others have a much wider kind of you know scale and remit across various different styles and different musical cultures. Um the backgrounds of managers can vary quite a lot. Um, some might come um from an artist or performer background, right? Maybe they've been managed themselves uh in the past, uh, while others, you know, might come from more of a kind of music business background or marketing. This often determines the type of manager that they actually usually go on to become, you know. So, for instance, managers that come from a sort of more artistic background perhaps sometimes have a much more kind of um personal and more empathetic kind of management style because they know what it was like to be in that position. Um, you know, often involving themselves with, you know, the creators that they manage on a day-to-day basis. This could also include offering, you know, sort of creative and styling advice, um, you know, managing the creator's diary, serving as some kind of constant point of contact for that artist, you know. Um there are other managers that I can think of as well that are way less supportive on a personal level and instead just play a bit more of a business role, you know, they're a bit more of an objective kind of strategist who sort of builds business plans that are then measured and scalable within the term of the contract agreement. Um, these more kind of business focused types of managers will typically negotiate on behalf of the artist with you know such partners as record companies, publishers, booking agents, sponsorships, um, other media partners, accountants, lawyers, they'll also manage budgets across various aspects of the artist's career and therefore deal with accountants, etc. as well. There are, of course, also people that don't quite fit into either of those categories because they are more of a kind of hybrid manager, right? That kind of blend both of those two aspects. So, traditionally speaking, we we know that there are creative managers, there are business managers, but a lot of the managers that I speak to nowadays kind of think quite heavily about both of those areas. So, and there are also management companies, right? Um, in which different members of that staff play different roles when managing uh a you know a uh a creator's career. Okay, so when does a music creator actually need a manager, right? This is a big question, isn't it? Uh and you'll get lots of different answers. But I do have an answer for this, right? So I'll share some thoughts with you on this. You know, whilst a lot of artists actually do ask that question, the the answer is not always simple to them or to others around them because it varies on numerous factors, right? Loosely it boils down to how close the creator is to becoming a fully fledged professional, right? How close they are to making money, maybe they've started doing that and what that looks like. The usual answer to the question is when an artist can't manage themselves anymore, they need a manager. But, you know, that kind of that kind of argument, you know, it could be maybe a little bit flawed, um, because it kind of depends on the type of person that the artist is and also how organized they are, you know, how well they manage themselves. So, you know, many artists would love, I am sure, you know, to have the support of an artist manager as early as possible uh in their career. And sometimes that happens, but you know, sometimes attracting the attention of a manager come that comes with a proven track record is is maybe less realistic if the artist does not have some kind of track record um of their own. So some artists often assume that you know their talent and then their potential um can make them appealing to more established managers, when actually it's usually just their ability to test themselves in the marketplace and generate some kind of growth and demonstrate that first before they bring in a manager. Uh, that's especially true today, right? When it's arguably much easier for artists to actually, you know, release their own music, build their own careers, gain some kind of traction in the form of like artist data, which can then be used as a leverage point, right, to further their careers and attract the interest of proven managers. Um when I say artist data, by the way, what I'm talking about is metrics, you know, social media, following, engagement, number of streams, um, you know, listener-to-stream ratio, saves, uh also live activity, you know, so you know, these are all indications of growth that can also include things like self-created press attention, you know, with blog re blogs or reviews, interviews, you know. And obviously, you know, the artist needs to have an understanding of where they fit, right? You know, what what their genre is, what their sort of musical identity is, you know, also combined with a commitment to continue to grow their own network or their own reputation, you know. Um, so it's important that artists think about what their offer is to managers, in addition to what the manager can do for them. Because, you know, managers are you know music professionals, right? At the end of the day, they need to make a living from their time, from their efforts, from their services, um, and a good intention um to work for free, as noble as it is, you know, it's it's all it needs to be sustainable, right? So um so in assessing when the right time to work with a manager is, an artist must be able to ask um, you know, when the right time is for a manager to work with them. If you can explain, if you're an artist and you can explain to yourself why you need a manager, um, exactly what you expect of them and what you can do in return, then I would say you're uh several steps closer to being a managed artist. Alright, so let's think about then, you know, the artist looking to find a manager, right? Because, you know, on the one hand, we're firmly in, you know, the sort of the digital era, the information age, where we can find so much of the information that we need through just basic Google search engines, right? And uh but on the other hand, there's so much information available that it can be a bit overwhelming as to know where to start with this, right, and how to kind of navigate that pathway towards finding the right manager. So here's some ideas for you, right? First off, research artists that are similar to you. Now it sounds really simple, right? But if you can do that and you can identify, you know, uh who is similar to you in style, in genre, in market. So this should be specific recording artists, right? If you're an artist. Um so, or or you know, if you're a DJ, look at the look at the other DJs that are in the same sort of subgenre as you, or if you're in a band, look at the other bands that are in exactly the same area of a style as you are. This will give you an idea, right, of kind of who is out there, who is in that field, who could be uh, you know, a good a good fit for you, right? Just just look at who manages them, right? Then then do a separate search on the management company or the manager and then understand the role that they play. And you know, do they have a submission policy? You know, how do you submit to them, you know, and what are their specialisms, you know, what what are their kind of what their interests are, you know? And also you just always be aware of like just you know, premature introductions, right? Because in a world where it's just so easy to just DM somebody on social media and and kind of get blanked by them, right? It's not good, right? Uh it just be patient because there'll be a way in which managers are happy to be communicated with, and that may not be as a DM on you know Instagram. It might be, but it probably won't be, right? So just have a look at how they want to be communicated with um and be patient, right? Be professional. Um, you know, it needs to be that your email to them needs to be, it needs to be an offer, right? Where you're at, what what's your plan for the next year? You know, where do you sit? Who's similar to you, that kind of thing. Also, another thing to consider, and I know a few artists that have done this and it's worked really well for them, is to actually research music universities and music colleges, right? So in the same way that kind of regional radio is bursting with, you know, lots of talent in the form of like broadcasters, tastemakers, journalists, presenters, education settings like you know, universities, colleges, and contemporary institutes are also, you know, they're brimming, right, with like emerging artist managers who are studying how to be artist managers, right? And they are desperate to find new acts to champion because it pedals up their career to where they want to go next, you know. It's good to explore this on a local level or a regional level, but by just sort of identifying the right kind of educational settings. And it can be achieved by, you know, again, a you know, a sort of internet search um to identify music business courses in your area and skipping past, you know, all the ads that pop up for courses and all that kind of stuff. Once you've found the right kind of setting with the right kind of courses, um reach out to the music business department, you know, or course leader with a polite email, right? Just introducing yourself and and just state that you're looking to partner with an emerging artist manager. You know, that could very well lead you to being asked to, you know, maybe come and audition or talk with undergraduate level learners who are who are, you know, who will go on to become music industry professionals, you know, that kind of access at that kind of point uh to a range of like, you know, emerging, hungry, motivated people who are out to prove themselves, you know, in the same way you are, that can be really, really fruitful, right? And if you don't hear anything back, you know, why why not just you know turn up there, right? And ask for the person that runs the course, right? And go and talk to them. Um nothing ever comes to us, does it, right? If you haven't figured that out yet, hopefully you'll figure it out soon. Nothing comes to you, right? You have to go and kind of find it, you know. Um you can be polite, you can be professional. Um even if you get a no, you know, it doesn't matter, right? What's the worst that can happen? You'll be remembered, right? So that's another thing to think about. Now, another thing is this, right? I've noticed that, so the Music Managers Forum, the MMF, right? So their website is the the MMF.net, right? They're they're a they're a they're a company that kind of supports um and guides and you know is the voice of like managers. They're a they're a big company. I'd say they're probably I think they're probably the biggest in the world in terms of like a network of managers that kind of um that do what they do to support artist managers, but they are a pretty big, you know, representative body. Um and their purpose is to sort of you know educate, innovate and advocate for music managers. And they also um and to you know to serve like a you know a kind of society of music professionals and companies, right? One of the things that they do is they actually have a tab on their website now for artists to apply to where you can click on and go, I'm an artist trying to access a manager. And they actually have a feature on there that you can click on and pitch yourself as an artist that will then hit all of their members that are managers and management companies. So that's another thing to consider. Um, they also have their book, right, The Essentials of Music Management, which lists all the details of managers, so it could be worth. I definitely wouldn't like hit everybody in there, right? That's that's that's not always a very effective thing to do. Um, and I I kind of giggle to myself because when I was younger, I used to do stuff like that. It never really yielded any kind of results. And I as I'm older now, I get I get why, right? Because there's only going to be maybe a handful of managers in there that are suitable for you. And just you know, just do that extra little bit of research, figure out who they are, who they manage, you know, are they a good fit for you? Like, what's the best thing that can come out of it is them maybe managing you, right? But if they're not a good fit, you can tell that just from looking at them and just from looking at who they manage and what they do, how they operate, you know, is that a good fit for you? It's definitely worth considering that before reaching out to everybody. Um, speaking of which, there are other listings of managers, right? So there are publications, things like you know, um The Unsigned Guides, right, which is which is uh a very huge uh array of contacts for all sorts of different things. Um you know, it lists music managers alongside there also their genre specialism, which goes next to it, which is very useful, together also with a range of other you know, music business contacts that could be pretty uh pretty useful. There's also the music week directory, which is similar. That's all that includes like a database of music managers alongside other uh you know kind of people in the music industry. Um, you know, remember when you're doing stuff like that, you're basically kind of cold calling or cold emailing, which is fine, right? Because, you know, on the one hand, you'll get people that say, well, you know, you've got to wait for them to come to you, and that is sometimes the case, but not always, right? You sometimes it's about kind of just taking a leap of faith and going, I'm gonna reach out to that person and tell them what it is that I'm getting in touch with them about. Tell them about my project, tell them about what I plan to do, and just see what comes back. Again, the worst that can happen is you you get a no or you get nothing back, and you can't be afraid of that, right? So also another thing is to ask people, right? Those that you trust, right? So this will depend upon you know what your network can can is look looks like right now, right? But when you talk to other music creators that do have managers, you know, maybe it's someone that you've gigged with or whoever, it can be useful to gain the understanding of what those managers do and so that you can kind of learn from it, you know, and sometimes just asking questions to people like, you know, oh, you know, uh who's your manager? Like, how do you find working with them? You know, that can be really useful because it informs you as to what those kind of uh what they what their manager does for them, you know, and what they don't do for them and that kind of thing. Gives you an expectation um of what to expect yourself, you know. Now, one of the things that I have noticed uh in in recent years, right, i in in the in the landscape of music management is this. Um since the turn of the millennium, there was a huge increase in music managers under the age of 30. Now, this is maybe perhaps due to kind of the heightened awareness of artist management as a viable career route for emerging music professionals. It could also maybe due in part to the amount of information available to us in the modern era, right? Hopefully with podcasts like this and the book uh that I wrote, that kind of thing, right? Amongst other things, of course, right? But also combined with the development of sort of contemporary music institutions and education settings where new learners are educated on the mechanics of the music industry, undergrad and postgrad level, right? The latter is something which is not widely available, right, or wasn't widely available before the turn of the century. But, you know, nonetheless, the majority of music managers are probably are over the age of 30, and as I mentioned, you know, come from a background in the music industry, albeit maybe not artist management, right? So therefore, you know, there is a turning point in which music professionals take the leap to become music managers, um, you know, which starts by managing the musical act, right? That could be you. That could that perhaps that's something perhaps there's somebody that you are aware of that you think would actually make a great manager for your career, right? That might be a producer, a promoter, a scout, a journalist, a lawyer, or somebody else from a different field within music that you know is looking to branch out and find a new direction. You could be the first act that they manage. And if you're brave enough to kind of approach them and ask them, it could be a pretty pivotal, pivotal moment, right, in your career and also in theirs as well. Alright, so let's talk about uh commission, right? So what you know, what kind of commission does a manager take? Well, the answer is typically between sort of 10 and 25% of a artist's uh of an artist's collective income, right? So it's become more common in recent decades to see, you know, the kind of the sliding scales of percentages um against uh you know total revenue, right? So for example, 20% on the first 15,000 or you know, 15% on income after that, that kind of thing, right? Um now this will usually sit inside of the term, right? So the term being like let's say two years, five years or whatever of a contractual agreement rather than a typical tax year. So um it's often worth for an artist to consider whether any pre-existing income streams that were kind of self-generated, right, prior to the appointment of a manager should actually be commissionable or not. There's no right or wrong on that, by the way. It's just um I know some artist managers that will say, Well, you know, that was something you're already doing, so I'm not going to take anything from that. But there's others that go, well, you know, I'll kind of take that on and manage it for you now, so I should include that in my commission. There's no right or wrong, it does vary. Um, so you know, but it is something that's often overlooked in contracts, I've noticed, right? And it can lead to kind of unnecessary sort of fallouts. So it's always, you know, important that, you know, exactly what is commissionable is laid out very early on in an agreement. All right, here's an interesting question that often comes up, right? So do managers invest financially in artists, right? So, you know, a key part of a management agreement concerns how the manager will actually recoup expenses on a on an artist's behalf, right? So expenses incurred, you know, by the manager on the artist's behalf are, well, they're they're unavoidable, right? And should be built into some kind of agreement uh on what they agree on, right, in the contract. So also spending caps are rarely agreed in contracts, right? I've seen some management contracts that have some crazy, crazy high or crazy low spending caps, and it can or or non-mentioned at all sometimes. So it's important that there is transparency and openness on that, you know, between an artist and their manager when it comes to that subject, right? So that all of a sudden a manager doesn't just say, Oh, well, I've spent this, this, this, this, this, and this, so I'm gonna, you know, and an artist's like, I don't know, it costs that much, you know. So maybe um maybe there's a cause, a clause, right, in a contract for larger expenditure, right? Maybe like over 2,000 or over 5,000 that needs to be agreed upon, right, in advance, in writing, right, with the artist's approval. That's always something that should be considered, you know. It's it's not uncommon, by the way, as well, to see an artist manager actually invest larger amounts of money in a music creator's career. Some managers will hate me saying that, by the way, but it's true. I've had managers that have invested money, right, in in in in the career of a band. You know, it it does happen, right? Some don't do it, some don't like doing it. There's no right or wrong again, right? But maybe this could be to cover, you know, like the costs of recording or promotion or small-scale touring or maybe just like a video shoot, video photo shoot, or you know, this is often regarded as an advance against future earnings rather than uh a kind of a loan that's repayable, right? But again, that all needs to go into an agreement, doesn't it, you know, in advance, right? So that you know it's put in writing and it protects all parties. Okay, so is it more favourable to have a manager that's got loads of experience or a manager that doesn't have as much experience but has a good knowledge base and has loads of passion? Well, I'm not here to tell you what the right one is because there's loads of case studies where both are true, right? But both are important, of course, right? You know, if you've got a manager that's got an amazing track record, but they've got very little drive or passion to, you know, then that's a problem as well, right? So, you know, and also experience and passion, they don't always come sort of hand in hand, they don't always come together. So, you know, an experienced manager is very often kind of you know the source after choice, right? Because they've got a track record, an existing network, etc. But maybe a less experienced but very passionate manager can be what's actually required to take that creator's career to the next level, right? So um I talk about this in my book actually. There's a good example of this, is um is the USA-based manager Miles Shears, who uh who took um Kaigo, the Norwegian producer DJ, to become, you know, the um the first billion streaming artist on Spotify within a very relatively a relatively short amount of time, actually, right? It was a really remarkable um achievement. I remember watching a documentary about their relationship and you know uh Miles Shears was in his early twenties, right, at the time, and he'd only really ate Manny's like one act, I think, before then. Um but uh but Kaigo had had composed a song which had, you know, kind of generated some early career buzz on um on a music blog that was, I think it was part of um it was one of the blogs that was listed on Hype Machine, I can't remember which one, but having listened to his music on SoundCloud um because of that blog feature, you know, Shears was then quick to kind of notice Kaigo and and and his kind of his abilities as a musician, right? So that kind of early career intervention together with Shears' very kind of extrovert character and very fearless approach, made for a kind of very sort of yin and yang type kind of partnership with uh with Kaigo, who's very placid, right? Um so on the other hand, you know, you've got Ed Sheeran's longtime manager, Stuart Caves, right, who had a solid track record of managing the likes of James Blunt, Lily Allen, before he signed Sheeran to uh to management, right, in the sort of 2009, 2010, something like that. Now, by contrast, there are managers who have drawn on both experience and passion, right, to evolve and develop into greater versions of themselves and move adeptly within the times that they're in, right? You know, a good example of that uh is a guy called Stephen Taverner, right, who who successfully managed um the UK band Ash. Now, I think he managed them for like two decades or something, but you know, but he'd also previously kind of you know reshaped the uh the careers of uh the Ting Tings and um and and taking them from like their sort of less successful previous incarnation as Dear Eskimo and turning them into you know a billboard chart sensation with uh with success, you know, both sides of the Atlantic, um before they then, you know, kind of changed changed ship, right? Went to rock nation, I think, after that. But you know, a less passionate manager could quite easily have become, you know, pretty disenchanted by this, right? But you know, uh, I don't know uh Taverner, but uh I should imagine he's a pretty defiant character because he he he then went on to uh enjoy even greater success, right, by managing the likes of Old Jay, Wolf Alice, and many others, right? So, you know, artists have their story, right, where they kind of peek and try. Managers are the same, right? Everybody's just a person, everyone's a human being with a deep connection, you know, with uh their own story, and you there are these ups and downs, right? So there's some really courageous stories of different artists managers that are out there, and there's most definitely not a one-size fits-all for managers or for artists. All right, so let's talk about uh network, right? So the music industry has has long been a largely kind of people-based business, right, that thrives on connections between, you know, key individuals working together with an aligned goal, right? A strategic purpose behind their working relationship. And a manager is often expected, you know, to kind of have a wealth of connections across the industry so that they can build, you know, that that that's the right sort of team around the artist and their goals and that kind of thing. Now, a network can be grown pretty quickly, right? When a when a when there's a hungry, motivated manager, you know, that that that is very motivated by by the artist that they're managing and they want to get their name out there, you know, I I've seen people grow their network very, very quickly, right? And it's a very, very important skill. So even if you've got a manager that doesn't know Loads and loads of people. It's about their ability to know how to build those connections, right? That's maybe even more important. Um, a network must also be, you know, sustained, right? It takes effort to continually feed it, especially in this rapidly moving industry, right? So, therefore, a manager needs good interpersonal skills, right? Patience, the ability to meet people, make things happen. In an industry where things change very quickly and people move on, managers who rely on their contacts from a bygone era, you know, tend to fare quite poorly, right? People age, people move on, things change very, very, very, very quickly. So, you know, only knowing certain people from a certain time period, unless it's very, very genre-specific, is not always a good thing, right? They a network needs to be constantly renewed, constantly looking at who's coming through, and not just artists, not just managers, but all sorts of different professionals in the wider fields of the music industries. All right, I want to talk to you also about a trial uh period, right? A trial period between a manager and artist is often a good idea. I know this has worked well for many people that I can think of. Um so this will usually, not always, but usually be some kind of like fixed period of time, maybe it's like three months, twelve months or whatever, which just allows both parties to kind of figure out, you know, if they want to carry on together, right, and progress their partnership or or move on from one another, you know. A trial can be, you know, a non-contracted period, right? Which perhaps puts some risk on the manager, maybe, right? But especially if they make, you know, significant improvements to the career of an artist who then moves on to a different manager, right? You know, so the manager could safeguard their position a little bit, right, by putting in place some kind of contractual agreement from the very beginning, which outlines their option to cancel or continue with the arrangement at their discretion following on from that trial period. But guys, I'll level with you on this subject, right? I know a lot of managers that don't have contracts with their artists, right? Now, okay, this is a music business podcast, right? I'm a music business guy, uh, you know, I've wrote a music business book, but sometimes the rules are not always followed, and that's not always a bad thing. I know a lot of managers that would just go, do you know what? We don't have a contract, but we have a really good working relationship. Uh, our ties are quite bind anyway because of the partners we've got involved in what we do, and we don't really have a contract because either of us can just end this at any point whenever we like, you know, and and if both parties are comfortable with that, um, then there's kind of nothing wrong with it as long as there's there is some kind of um basis behind it. Now, there's loads of lawyers out there that would go, that's nonsense. But I can tell you there's a lot of very successful managers that don't have contracts. Now, I'm not saying that's the right thing, I'm just telling you the reality. Sometimes there's a story behind the story, and it's easier to sit here and go, hey, have a contract, right? That is the right thing to do. On paper, it's good to have paper, right? Of course it is, but it's not always realistic. So just something to think about there. Okay, so there's a little overview on the subject of artist management. Hopefully, it gives you an idea of what to expect, how to kind of um you know move forward in this area and build a bigger um uh understanding, right, of what an artist manager does and and and and how important it is. You know, they just they have to be so well-rounded in so many different things, they have to be a jack of all trades and uh uh, you know, and knowledgeable about so many different things. But very often it's built on the base of something that they've already done, but not always, right? Sometimes people come into it with a very well-rounded early skill set that they've perhaps acquired through education or experience or whatever it might be. Uh, there are lots of different artist managers, and there should be, because there's lots of different artists out there that make music and finding the right people, uh it's difficult sometimes, right? But it not always. Sometimes it just it clicks and it works, and sometimes it might not be the first person you find, it might be the second, it might be the tenth, but whoever. It is an important relationship in the music industry, right? One of the closest between the artists, between that manager. So, anyway, that's enough of my thoughts on that for today. I wish you a great day. Until next time, everybody, may the force be with you.