The Music Business Buddy

Episode 73: The Maverick, The Man and The Pioneer - An Interview with Russell C Brennan

• Jonny Amos • Season 1 • Episode 73

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The safest place in music is the middle of the road—and that’s exactly why Russell C Brennan never stands there. We welcome the multi-platform creator behind Future Legend Records to unpack how he built a lasting indie label, broke new artists with daring strategy, and kept control when the majors came calling. From selling 10,000 units in a month by phoning record shops to turning cult TV and film themes into a launchpad for fresh talent, Russell shows how a clear idea and relentless follow-through can bend the market to meet the music.

We explore the blueprint of indie longevity: why standing out beats chasing trends, how to pick partners who understand your vision, and what to do when “creative accounting” gets between you and your royalties. Russell takes us inside the writing of The Future Legend Records Story, shares candid lessons from leaving Sony and thriving with Pinnacle, and opens his producer’s notebook—tight arrangements, reverb as an instrument, and his ghost guitar technique that captures only effects for a haunting, cinematic feel.

The conversation widens into art and identity, framed by Russell’s connection with David Bowie and the Japanese concept of the geisha as a “total artist.” He explains why he’s known as the last male geisha, what it means to live as a work of art, and previews his upcoming documentary on Bowie in Japan alongside the book Hidden Bowie. We also dive into PsyKick Holiday’s pop noir sound—punk cello, koto, saxophone—and how AI video can elevate independent visuals without sacrificing originality.

If you’re an artist, producer, or label builder, you’ll leave with practical tactics and a mindset shift: nerve and knowledge are your greatest assets. Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs a creative jolt, and tell us the one bold move you’re ready to make next.


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SPEAKER_00:

Hello everybody and a very warm welcome to You're Listening to the Music Business Buddy with me, Johnny Ayman, podcasting out of Birmingham in England. I'm the author of the book, The Music Business for Music Creators, available in hardback, paperback, and ebook format. I'm a music creator with a variety of credits as a writer-producer. I'm also a consultant, an artist manager, and a senior lecturer in both music business and music creation. Wherever you are, whatever you do, please consider yourself welcome to this podcast and to a part of the community around it. I'm here to try and educate and inspire music creators from all over the world in their quest to achieving their goals by gaining a greater understanding of the business of music. Okay, so in this week's episode, I am joined by the brilliant Russell C Brennan, who is a truly human leader and pioneering individual. He's a multi-platform artist. He's released over 19 books, running fiction and non-fiction. He's produced over 500 music releases, earning a number one, and being dubbed an indie production god by national uh press. He's also been nominated for UK Producer of the Year and even featured in Warnehole as one of the 120 most innovative record producers of all the time. As a songwriter, he's had over 100 releases and recently greater than the cover of the songwriting uh international songwriter international. Um he's performed in multiple bands as a singer, but mainly by what is known as Long Jellow. Uh his photography has been featured in several uh exhibitions uh without any art recognizing uh recognizing him as an artist of note and an award-winning poet. Um he's also editor of the influential publication Dedicated Follower, which has appeared uh in the VA Museum and exhibition and is now being developed into a television series. And now he also founded Future Legends Records, right, which is a very innovative kind of indie label celebrating the 30 years of trend setting. Um formerly a number one DJ and a self-proclaimed adventurer. Uh he's been called the best recorder by J.K. Rowling's agent. Um his visual work includes over 100 hot videos, two music documentaries, and an animated television show. Currently he's directing a documentary on his friend David Bowie, uh, who we also share management with and director also for feature films. He's also a savvy entrepreneur with multiple brands. He has occasionally consulted in the arts and the media, most notably for the BBC uh and international boot company Dr. Martins. There's a lot to this man's career, so let's get into it. I'm gonna play the interview right now. Here we go. Russell, welcome to the music business buddy. Uh, how are you?

SPEAKER_01:

I'm fine, thanks.

SPEAKER_00:

Good. It's good to uh it's good to have you here with me. Um let's get into the first question, Russell. Firstly, you know, it must be said, a huge congratulations uh on uh on the creating true legacy, right, with with Future Legends Records. Uh amongst all the other things that you've done, you know, but with over three decades worth of very pioneering kind of activities and a deep catalogue of outstanding music, you've managed to navigate through all the challenges of like the old industry, let's say, and transition into the new one and still be standing. You must be left with a few nuggets of wisdom. Um is there anything that kind of leaps to mind that you can share on that subject?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, in some ways, the the game's still the same. You get if you if you if you've got the nerve, you've got uh to stand out from the crowd, that's what gets you noticed both in the old school way of doing it and the new school way of doing it. A lot of people just look what's in the charts, I'll just cash in on that, and that's and there's a massive crowd all standing trying to get that little space where everyone's doing the same thing, and over there there's a little crowd of people not doing the same thing. Takes a bit longer to get there when you're doing the same a bit different, but that's the the way if you want to get on uh and with longevity to do it that way, really.

SPEAKER_00:

And also there's a good way of looking at it.

SPEAKER_01:

I there's sorry, there's one other way of doing it is um if you're part of a scene, because I grew up a mod, so uh luckily I was doing mod music, so it was a ready-made scene. But when I did pioneering music, it was more of a challenge, but I I wanted to do that anyway. Anyway, that's the the the crux of it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. Um, no, I appreciate that, yeah. Um, I mean, just thinking about the um the label side of things, you know, one of the many interesting kind of facets of uh Future Legends uh legacy, let's say, um, has been, you know, producing new versions of kind of cult TV and film theme tunes as part of, you know, perhaps an alternative to you know, maybe just reissuing the originals. Um, you've kind of managed to use that as a sort of tool to showcase uh new talent and to build obviously unique catalogue as well. What was it that made you kind of think about that as an approach to market?

SPEAKER_01:

I used to work in a record shop, used to manage a record shop, and then once you'd come in, you've got Man from Uncle, Mission Impossible, Batman, blah blah blah. And I say, no, you couldn't get them on singles, they're in the impossible, and then they had these easy listening albums with all these uh Coronation Street, and then it might have the Avengers or something on there. So I don't want to buy the album just for one track, so they never bought them. But I knew people were always asking for these cult themes, and also on the mod scene, they used to play a lot of the cult themes as well, uh, the originals, and I just thought there's such a big market for this. If ever I got a label, I should release them. But rather than be lazy and just license the originals, when you're trying to break new artists and you're trying to get new music heard, there's a lot of resistance. So I thought I need a way to get people to listen to it. So I put just the right um track listing of cult themes together, and um did read as a record producer, I rearranged them and produced them, and I thought I'll use this to help break new artists. And luckily, my ex-wife, who's a pop star, she she got quite big in the late 80s, and she did the last two recordings for you only twice and up the junction. Her name was Eleanor Rigby, and we put them on, and that got got a bit of traction because she was on the album. Then they started listening to the uh the new acts, and then they started to break through because they were quite happy to listen to these, and then people like Mark Lamar was had it as his theme tune on his show. Mark Radcliffe was playing them all the time, radio one, and so suddenly all these acts were got a lot of resistance before the cult themes took off, and then I had a deal with Future Legend Records with Sony, and then I said to him when I showed them the track list and they said, We never heard of the acts, who's gonna buy it? We'll be lucky to sell 300 copies. I said, No, there'll be a lot of sales. So they showed, show us how it's done. So I got on the phone to the shops. I sold 10,000 copies in the first month, and they couldn't believe it. And they said, Oh, do you want a job working for us? I says, No, because you haven't got a clue what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00:

That must have uh turned a few heads by you know, by being able to kind of roll up your sleeves and you know, call those stores and make that happen. That's uh that's bold, man. That's brave.

SPEAKER_01:

I just got down and showed them how to do it because they were selling it the wrong way, they were just selling it on the name of the acts, and people saying we never heard of them. When I started selling it on the cult themes to the record shops and explained it to them, they just went for it. And then the sales team was all watching me and I said, I'm just showing you how it's done. So I did it for like a couple of days, and then they copied what I did, and that's what ended up selling a lot. And then then it became like a trend as well. All the clubs started playing the cult themes, and people go to the clubs dressing like Lady Penelope or James Bond or something because I did a lot of James Bond themes on there as well, and so it became like a lifestyle trend as well, so it kind of just really took off, and I helped break loads and loads of new acts that way, but also got some big number one hit hacks out of retirement to do it as well.

SPEAKER_00:

Good for you. That must have been tempting at at some point, you know, for for a big company like Sony to be able to go, hey, you know what? Come and work for us, come and do this on a wider scale. You know, were you not tempted at any point by that?

SPEAKER_01:

I'm never into the money side of it, so they they offered me a load of money to work for me. I said, forget it. And also, Virgin approached me when after the third cult themes album, saying, Can you come and do a compilation for us about the cult themes? But I was all just doing another, I was doing an album for Dr. Martin's of a unique album for them, and plus I had two other projects on my own label, so I didn't have the time to do it. And they said, We really want to copy this cult themes. So it what they did they just copied all my cult themes and put out the originals, knowing which was the right tracks to go on what my put out, and it sold half a million. But I could have they offered me money to do that, but I would have done that one because I knew the right thing to do, but I was so chocker with producing at the time I couldn't do it. So, yeah, the majors did take a lot of notice of it.

SPEAKER_00:

Crikey. Well, there's only so many days in a week, and there's only so much you can do, I suppose, isn't there? But uh that's right. Well, I mean, so what about you know, to celebrate like the 30th anniversary of the label? You released the book, uh, The Future Legends Record Story. That must have been a really fun process to kind of put that together because you must have had to start looking back and thinking about all the things that you that you did. Well, what was that process like for you?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it was great because uh uh Tony Wilson, who's quite famous in the business, used to run factory records and he was on Grenada TV and stuff, used to say to me, Future Legend Records is the blueprint for a successful indie, because he said, You're still in business, you're still pioneering, you're still making money, and all that all the rest, because we were like a little gang, all the indie pioneer labels, all went out of business, most of them. He said, But you seem to have to, you're always just ahead of the curve. You you like always seem to know what's going to happen, and then you set trends, and it seems to take off. And so it was um, you know, I like the pioneering aspect of it, and uh uh there was lots of funny stories, you know, along the way. Like one band I was producing called Earthling Scum, they're in the in the uh in the recording studio, and I was doing the professionals with them, and they they said, Oh, well, guitarist has not turned up, uh we could we don't know if we can do it. So I said, Well, we I we'll have to scrap it, and they said, Hang on, we've got an idea. Cougar, Alex guitarist, is in the mental waspels, it's not far from it, we would go and get him. So they broke this guy out of a mental hospital, wheeled him in in a trolley in a straitjacket, undid his straitjacket, put the guitar in Zam, said Cougar, played a riff, blah blah blah. Then he fell asleep and they wheeled him out. And so, did that just happen? Was that a hidden camera thing? So these are sort of things that were happening on a weekly basis, and and we we do we did uh brown breaking videos as well to to get to beat the opposition. Like we go down to the prisoner village in Wales and film a video down. And the the guy who owned the prisoner village was a fan of my band at the time called Box of His Poison, plus the cult theme, so he let us have the whole village for free for the weekend to film it. Whereas the BBC got charged 50 grand a day, and so we did pioneering videos, and one called Chatmade by Box of His Poison, it's got all the prisoner village, and there's the prisoners got a lot of fans, so they all went to buy the video, and so we actually made a profit on the video, which is unheard of in the business. And a funny story on the way home, uh leader at the time, Louise, she was in the graduate with um went on to become Tears Sophia's, but she was too young to sign with them, she was only 15 at the time. But she was in our band, but she wasn't the brightest spark. And we were going back from Wales to England, and I said, Has anybody got any Welsh money? Because we need to change it at the boulder, and you can't spend it in England. And they they said, Oh, look, what is it? I said, It's red red dragons on a fire or or or leeks on the coin. And Louisa went, Oh, I've got a little of these leaks, but it was actually fistles, but I said, Oh, yeah, they look like leeks. You left you can't spend it in England, buy us all fish and chips. So she bought us all fish and chips at the boulder. Going just go, and then we all started laughing. And they said, What are you laughing at? Said, there's no such thing as Welsh money. You can actually all gave me the money back. So there's lots of funny stories like that in the book, The Future Legend Records Story. That was it was hilarious, a lot of it. But there was also Dan's sides, you know, like for instance, Sony ripped us off, we sold so many records one, and then they did they got very creative accounting, and they start saying, 'Oh, we don't owe you any money, we have to pay for this, we have to pay for that.' And so, um, so we had a big we were going to sue them, they were going to sue us, and we ended up amicably leaving Sony and went with BMG after that. But we only found a perfect home when we had Pinnacle because they they understood indie labels, and and then we became really popular via Pinnacle, and we didn't get ripped off after that. But there's a lot of rip-off to what to to in the business as well, because uh, as you also know, I've got a book called Music Business Fast as that dude when the music was about getting ripped off, and it helped a lot of people as well. In fact, it just helped a new band called the Molotovs that I just advised about a year ago, and they've had two number one records since then, and so I'm still relevant from then, and when from when the book first came out, other bands took note of what was in there and became successful as well. So they avoided getting off, ripped off, and and so on, you know. So, in fact, I'm uh just one other quick story. Rick, I saw Rick Butler not long before he died, who was the jam, you know, he died recently, and he said he came up to me, he said, if only that book had been around when I was I thought I got ripped off something rotten. And he said, But um, then that that book was much needed. Music Business Basters is the book, the the Bible to go to and find out, and not to get ripped off, but also had to stand out from the crowd and do well. But uh there's a lot of advice in some ways in the future legend records story. The future legend records stories gives you a really interesting journey of what it was like to be one of the pioneering indie labels because there's a lot of gang of us that all were pioneering, and what was funny about it, we used to take on the mangers, we used to gang up and take on the mangers because we had more clout by joining together, but then as soon as we after that, we'd all be fighting each other again because we're all indie labels against each other, so that was quite an interesting ride. So this reflects all that in the future ledger record story book that's on Amazon, and uh, as do like say just a quick snapshot of some of the funny stories, but it's loads in there, and we had lots of cult acts like Eleanor Rigby, who, as I said, who's been really massive while I was married to, and then that I also got what I also did a unique thing, which was my hero as a record producer, is Joe Meek, and um I signed some Joe Meek acts, I signed the honeycombs, and I got uh I said I don't need to sign them, they've got the original lineup together with the girl drum and everything, and they all got together just for me. And we had a nice uh successful record that, and there was another girl called Glenda Collins that was a Joe Meek act, but then I met this guy called Tony who'd written a song. He was due to be signed uh to record it for Joe Meek, his song, and then Joe recorded the backing track, and then Joe shot himself, as people know about Joe Meek's story, and so he it never and so Joe uh Tony took the backing track and sat in it for like 50 years, and then he suddenly played it to me. And he said, You're producing Glenda. What about doing this song called The Long Drop? So I said, good idea. So I thought Joe Meek's done the backing track, I'll produce the vocal. I rewrote some of the lyrics to make it more modern and then put it out, and it helped Tony get his first release after 50 years. Glenda was in the care room at the time, I had to get her out of the care room, and she was going downhill and she suddenly went uphill and got better because of doing the recording. And I got to co-produce a song with my idol Joe Meek from Beyond the Grave, so that everyone's everyone's dream came true, and that's the sort of stories you'll find in the future Legend Record story, you know, all these crazy things that I used to do and pioneering how, and it also gives an insight into my recording process as well as a top record producer because I was listening in the top 20 most innovative record producers of all time, and I've been nominated for UK record producer of the year and that sort of thing. So it get any aspiring producers, that's the go-to book, but also any in anyone who wants to get their own label, it gives you a new way, like Tony Wilson said, blueprint had to have a successful indie label, and it's got lots of fun stories in it. So, yeah, the future legend record story is definitely one to get if people are interested.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, absolutely right. Yeah, wow, god, there's not many people out there like you, Russell. It's uh it's fascinating to hear some of those things. I'm just thinking of you know, kind of um, you know, putting some of those stories from that kind of that period of time into the modern era, you know. Could you imagine what people would do with uh Instagram stories and TikTok and all sorts of social media madness and PR out of some of those stories? I mean it's remarkable.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah, no, I I mean I still do things like that now, but I'm I I'm not that keen on uh social media, but I'm being dragged kicking and screaming to have to do a bit on Instagram and on Facebook and stuff, but um, and LinkedIn and things like that. But the record label, futureelectricords.com, is where you find out most about me, probably. And also I've got a magazine called Dedicated Follower that people can learn from as well.

SPEAKER_00:

Ah, okay. Now, because I mean I've been reading quite quite a lot about you, um, uh, you know, ahead of uh ahead of you know talking with you today, and and in many ways, you know, it was kind of like crikey me. How do I narrow this down to a few questions? Because there's so many different things um that we could talk about. But uh one of the things that I noticed uh is is is that you are, let me get this right, the first ever male geacher or the only male geezer. Um have I got that right?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, there used there I there used to be two male geishas, and I'm the only one, I'm the only one left. That came about because I used to uh I used to share management with David Bowie and my fellow Brixton brother, and we got on like a house on fire because we were both from Brixton, had the same sort of humour and stuff. But what he said to me one day, he said, Um we're we're we were both heavily into Japanese culture, but he said to me, You do all the arts, because as you've seen, you've read about me, I do photography, I do films, I do um a magazine, I do poetry, you name it, I do all the arts, and he was similar, he did all the arts, and he said, There's this thing, Jack of all trades, master of none. And he said, But we're the opposite. We're Jack of all trades, master of all of them. He said, and that's known as a geisha. I said, I thought that's a girl. And he said, No, the word geisha, I look it up, it means total artist or multi-platform artist, and that's what we are. So that's the word for it in Japan. So he said, So we're the only two male geis in the world. So I said, Why is there no other ones? He said, There used to be in the 17th century, but they stopped and it became just girls. He said, I'm not sure why that was. He said, but um, so we're the only two male shale geisers in the world, and he said, What adds to it the fact that we're both heavily into Japanese culture because he got his, as you know, he got his outfits designed by top Japanese people, he he got his photography like for heroes and lots of stuff done in Japan. He had lots of and and so he was always in Japan, he had his honeymoon there, like I said. I've just um at I'm currently doing a documentary about Bowie in Japan and his Japanese connections and being what it's like to be a geisha, and so that's going to be in my documentary out next year, and also in my book called Hidden Bowie that's coming out next year as well, about about him uh being a geisha. And so now obviously sadly he's no longer around. That's why I'm known as the last male geisha.

SPEAKER_00:

Wow, my goodness. Yeah, because you've um you've just come come back from Japan just just recently, Russell, haven't you?

SPEAKER_01:

I have, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So and that was part of the part of the documentary, was it?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah, because he told me all the places he used to go to, so and he said this is the place that's fascinating. So I went and filmed all the places he went to, even where he had his honeymoon, and I've spoken to people who knew him, like Sandy and the Sunsets was a band that he was fond of, and the girl sing was a bit of a pin up. And I had a uh two-hour chat with her, and we got on really well, and I'm gonna be working with her now. But um, and she said, Bowie is art, that's who he is, he's just a piece of art. And the other thing about a geisha, you've got to be like a walking work of art. Every day you go out, you have to stand out from the crowd and look like you don't have to dress like in kimonos and all that style girls, you just have to look like a work of art when you go out and stand out from the crowd, and I always do that when I go out anywhere. So, and he used to do the same, and so that's uh another element of being a geisha, and so like say so. I've captured a lot of that in the film and lots of unique locations and speak to people, and some of the people who are fans of his, like um the guy who did his photos, his his uh nephews are one of the top DJs in um Japan, and he said, I'm the successor to David Bowie. I do the groundbreaking music that he dub Bowie would have been doing, it's got a similar vibe to it.

SPEAKER_00:

Crikey, okay. So can people expect that at some point what next year, year after, perhaps the documentary in the book?

SPEAKER_01:

The documentary, I've the documentary's got three parts. It's about his struggle in the 60s, it's about him as a record producer, but mostly it's about him as a geisha and the the world, what it's like to be a geisha, and all the ins and outs of it, it's in depth. And and because I've done the same thing, it's easy. I've I've got an insight into it, and then my story is about me and him together. So that's all in the book. It's probably going to be called Hidden Bowie, uh, the catalyst, and that's gonna be out probably mid next next year, probably. I'd imagine, and then the documentaries should be around the same time, but that concentrates morely on just the Japanese part of the book. Right, okay. Wow, fascinating. That might be on Netflix or somewhere. I don't know. We'll just look see who we get a deal with.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, anyone listening who who wants to do a deal, um just contact me.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, there's not many.

SPEAKER_01:

Get it get in early.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm sure there'd be a lot of uh broadcast partners that'd be keen to discuss that one. Um, I would also love to ask you um about the recent uh psychic holiday release. Um so you're you're you're kind of like the driving force uh you know in the in the act and and you know, a a pop noir, a pop noir pioneer. Um and you've now released the second album, Sensory Art. Can you tell us a little bit about that release?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I mean, it took me a while to do it because uh I pioneered this, as you say, music called pop noir, which has got jazz punk attitude, classical ambience, hypnotic grooves, gritty lyrics or f sexy lyrics, and a filmic feel. And the main instruments in the band is punk cello, saxophone, koto, harpsichle, bass, drums, and trumpet sometimes. So we don't use guitars basically, we use unusual instruments and I'm arranged stuff uh with a filmic feel, but you're a record producer. So and I'm the punk celloist, but I was forced. I did a couple of vocals on the first album, and then one that went top 20 in America. I was a bit shocked about that because the girl single I had was brilliant, and we had lots of catchy tracks on the first album, but my more avant-garde tracks really took off, and that's why I say sometimes it pays to stand out from the crowd. And so I produced a lot of classic albums in me, like my ex-wife had a classic album, Censorship, which blur, um, oasis, garbage, sent it in all cited as a major influence on their career, and that's known as a classic album by Elena Reed called Censorship. So I'm I'm used to doing classic albums, and when I did Forever Pop Noir, which was their first album, I thought I'm never going to get better than that. So I thought that is the best album I'll ever do. So it that's the go-to album of mine to go, Forever Pop Noir by Psychology. So I I was struggling to get do so we did quite we did some singles in the meantime that we did a couple of San Francisco and a few other things that was quite popular. But finally I started writing a couple of songs where I was I had this guy engineering for me and the the last cult things album I did, and he started playing a few things, and then we ended up writing a song, and that was a catlist it was called Sea of Souls to start doing another album. And so I had a lot of lyrics knocking around, a few ideas, and I suddenly thought. But I was always thinking I'm never gonna better that first album, so that's why I kept putting it off for ages. But finally, lockdown came along, just wrote or finished writing all the songs then. Plus, I did my magazine Dedicate Follow, which really took off because it's uh like a cultural magazine, and it used to be it was featured in the VA at the time uh when it first came out. But that was another success story during the lockdown. I just went on and do the magazine took off really big. But the other thing was, like I say, the the century art album I started writing, and then my singer is in the band is a French abstract artist, and she's my muse, who I do lots of photography with, and then we've got a photo book out called Myco's Journey, um, the making of a muse that's celebrating our 10th anniversary at the moment. But anyway, she came into the band, and then I decided, right, we'll we'll record these songs for century art, and then I she said, the only art you don't do is painting. Why don't you do painting? So I said, if I come up with a new idea of painting, I'll do it. So I came up with this idea, we pushed each other's emotions in many different ways, and we both painted on the canvas at the same time, and I called it century art. So that's where the name came from, from the paintings. And then because we were both in the band, then we started at the same time after the paintings, we started recording some songs, and then they started coming together, and they they were they're all pretty groundbreaking, a lot of them. There's like a really unusual Fen for Tale one that she sings on about Fen for Tales. But the most, and we do groundbreaking videos like we just the latest single is called Life's Great Adventure, and it's got an eight-minute AI video for it. And I know a lot of people are against AI, and I'm against AI nicking other people's music and recording and making songs out of it. But you've got to look at what's the positive of AI and making a video, a glossy video that might cost you half a million. You can now do that on the fairly cheap and AI, and it looks looks like a feature film. And so, our video for Life's Great Adventure and Ben Vital Tales really look top-notch, like compete with any manger company, and so that that's what helped the Century Art album, and like I say, it's got lots of innovative tracks on it, and it's nearly as good as the first album. But I've still got a fondness for that first album forever pop in the world that's got so many groundbreaking tracks on it, but this one's got a lot of good tracks on it, and that's how that came about. And and that's our latest album, basically, Century Art by Psychically. And if you look up Psychology, you always remember to spell it P S Y K-I-C-K. We like to put a kick in the music.

SPEAKER_00:

I love it, love it. Okay, I did notice that in the spell notes there. Um that's brilliant, okay. Um, I'm just thinking of um, you know, there's I'm sure there'd be a lot of uh music producers that look would like to ask you a lot of questions about your kind of your workflow, how you do stuff, right? You mentioned um uh the great Joe Meek earlier on, and uh, you know, he was a bit of a pioneer in terms of like how he recorded sounds and how he used tapes together and all that kind of stuff. What you know, you the your use of technology must have changed quite a lot, you know, over the years. Are you still uh now using kind of vintage technology, tape machines, things like that, or are you kind of all in the box these days, or is it a bit of both, or what does that side of it look like to you now?

SPEAKER_01:

I'm a free spirit, I just do what I feel like at the time. If I feel like it needs an analogue old studio, I'd go. Uh uh what I did is different to everybody. I I meet a lot of musicians who've been in hit bands and then a lot of friends of mine. And the first thing they do when their career goes down, they always they they get a recording studio, and then they have to spend all their life trying to get people into the recording studio, and that becomes their job. And I never and they're ever so when one comes to me and goes, Oh, you're a record producer, where's your studio? I said, I don't have one, so I'm not interested in having a studio, so I'll just go and hire a studio if I need it, someone wants to hire me to produce something, or you can do stuff on computer now because it's pretty much it's the same as what Joan Meade did back in the 80s, you know, or the 60s rather, just do it in your bedroom, sort of thing. He was the first bedroom pioneer, and you could do a lot of stuff, but I still come with the same attitude of um, you know, uh pretend there's pretend I haven't got hundreds of tracks to use, try and keep it there as as you know, as much as possible, keep it, keep it down, you know, to uh uh make it, you know, make the tracks work for each other rather than just get lazy and just do a lot of people they did today's market, they'll do a hundred vocal takes and stick them all together and then put uh auto-tune on it to make it perfect, but it's not about being perfect. And I'm always pioneering new things. One thing I do a lot is we'll reburb. Um like Joe Meat used to do because um engineers they I have a lot of problems with engineers sometimes. They they go when I'm mixing, they go, Well, that's not right. What do you mean? Look, what do you mean it's not right? Not according to the manual, you should turn the knob this way, and you can you can't the reburb's not in time, and it's not out. I said, Yeah, it's not supposed to be because what you can do with reburb is mess about it and make it into a whole new instrument. And I do a thing called ghost guitar in my some of my tracks, and what I do is I play guitar, but I don't record the guitar, I just record the effects that come after it, so it's just it so that's why it's called ghost guitar, and it's just the effects that's kind of out of time effects coming off a guitar, and it creates a whole ghostly type atmosphere on sort of track that people never heard before. So I like to just pioneer new stuff all the time, and so I can do that on a computer, I can do it in the studio, but like I say, with engineers in the studio, they think of it too boringly because they've gone to some college, I never went to college, I just got on and did it, and I've had 500 releases and they've all proved quite popular. Yeah, so I think engineers, you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_00:

No, no, that's that's fascinating. I appreciate your uh your insight into that. Um finally, if you could uh meet the the 18-year-old Russell, right, and just spend 15 with it minutes with him now, what would you tell him?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I was lucky enough, I'd already been successful at the time I was 18. Uh uh when I was young, I was 15, I was going out with a girl when her uncle uh uh had a pub and the DJ didn't turn up. And because I had a lot of records, I was music mad at the time. She said, Oh, my boyfriend's got the records. He can play the records in the pub. So I played them, I was only 15 at the time, but I went down better than a normal DJ. So he said, You do you want to do the job permanently? So I said, sure. So I did it, uh, even though I wasn't old enough to be in the pub, and then I started taking off as a DJ, and then I went to play bigger clubs after I left school, and also I got a job working for ATV television and and for a guy called Lord Lou Grade, and as you know, from Birmingham, they became central TV, but they were based and and they did crossroads and they did all this stuff, but they did they did a lot of the Gerry Ann's and stuff, and so I worked in ATV but. What I did was I was writing scripts since I was 13, and uh I dumped a load of scripts on his desk one day, and he said to me, called me in his office, Are you the person that dumped these scripts on my desk? And I said, Yeah. I thought he's gonna sack me. He said, Dear, really good, but you should have gone through the proper channels. So he said, What I'm gonna do is let you learn the ropes about ATV television. So I went out to Birmingham one time, but mostly it was Elstree and Cumberland Place and all these places they had. And so I started to learn about TV industry, but then I fell out with one of their directors because I was always shoving my scripts on some of the talent there, and they sacked me. So I went to Lou and said to him, Look, I've been sacked, and can you reinstate me? And he said, No. He said, uh, I don't overall my heads of department. He said, but the place for you is America, Hollywood. I said, why? He said, you write really good scripts. He said, if if it's not about age over there, he said it's called Dead Men's Shoes. He said, that's why they wouldn't accept your scripts because they've got these people signed up for years and years and you never get a chance. He said, in America, if you're good enough, you're old enough. So I said, yeah, but I don't know anyone in America. He said, I do. He said, I'll give you two names. If you've got the nerve to go out to Hollywood, go. So he gave me the two names, I got on the plane to Hollywood the next week. Went out there and went, saw the first guy, wasn't interested. Second guy bought the script off me for five grand. And uh then I was sitting at home watching this thing called the Gong Show for this guy called Chuck Berris, and it was near where I was living in in LA. And so I thought I'd written another show called the 20th century bounty, and it was like eastward in the 21st century. And so I saw the address of this place, and so I went down and walked, I got lucky, I walked into the reception, and there was this guy, Chuck Berris, in the reception, and he said, What do you want? And I said, Well, I'd like to sell you my scripts. And he said, What's it about? And when I told him, he said, I only do game shows, he said, Go away and write me a game show, I'll buy it off you. So I went away that night, wrote game show. I was back in his doorstep the next day, he couldn't believe it. He said, What? You already wrote a game show that quick? I said, Yeah, well, it doesn't take much to write a game show, surely. And he said, Come in. And he read it and he bought it off me. So he bought like an option, yeah. He bought an option, he paid an option money on it, and then I sold it again to ATV when I got home. So, you know, so you've got to have the nerve to just get up and do stuff sometimes, and I I I so not everyone can do that. But there's a there's an actual uh but there's a book about my early life called uh because like I said, when I was playing the um DJ, uh well's the DJ, like I said, there used to be the chalkboard outside with my name on it, half washed away by rain. And I went from that to playing, I got signed up by a big agent, and I'm playing all the massive first super clubs in in Europe with thousands of people with my name and neon lights outside. So that was a big culture shock. But like I say, I got lucky in that respect because the girlfriend got me the job of that DJ job, but it was your skill that gets you on in the end and having the nerve to just get on and do it because there's a lot of competition out there. So I'd say to people, get on and do it. But there's also another philosophy, because I'm immersed in Asian culture, is there's a thing called if you want to know what's up the road, uh if you want to know what's up the road up ahead, ask the man coming back down it. And that means you know, ask some of the knowledge and get knowledge is the key because if if you've got the knowledge, it can help you get on. Don't be afraid to ask people for advice, help, or like read books like you've had a book out, I know on the business of business, I've got one out. That rather than make loads of mistakes and get ripped off, you could save yourself get by a tenner just by getting a book, or these days you can watch a podcast or whatever it might be. So it's a lot easier nowadays to get information, as it wasn't so easy back there. So when I was 18, I'd already been like quite successful, and then I'm and then what happened next was I was I was in Denmark, like I said, playing these big um um places, and then I met Eleanor and started going out of her, and then she came. We were in Denmark at the time, she got arrested for not being um not in a work permit, and they were about to deport her. And I said, What's going on? And they said, Well, she's working illegally, she's gonna have to deport her. And strangely enough, the week before I'd I'd asked her to marry me, even though I'd only get out of her a couple of months, and she said yes, and we're gonna get married like the following year. But then they said, So I said to the policeman, can't you stay? He said, I'm supporting her. He said, You're who are you? I said, I'm boyfriend. They looked at my green card, I had one as a DJ, and then she said to me, Look, I said, If it was a relative, would it be different, like a mum or dad or husband? He said, Yes. So I said to the policeman, okay, would you like to be best man at my wedding? And he said, What? I said, Are you serious? I said, Yeah, I want to get we were gonna get married anyway. We will get married now. So he said, Are you very serious? I went, yeah. So we got married that that Saturday, and he was the best man, the policeman who arrested us. What? And uh, and then the mayor of the city, the mayor of the city was the was what married us. And then Eleanor, then I was like I said, I was one of the most successful DJs in Europe at the time, and they were offered me loads of money to carry on, and then they kept saying, I don't like all the girls hanging around, want you to quit. So I said, What I'm gonna do? She said, Well, I want to be a singer, and you write songs, and you're really good at producing because you produce some demos for some bands. Why don't you do that? And so for love, there was like a star who's born. Okay, I'll be the Brack Room boy, you can be the star. So we got married, we were married, we'd come home to England, and then her first single took off really big, and then that's how I ended up being big in the music industry through through that kind of way of doing things, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

Goodness mate, but uh gosh, life has some uh some funny twists and turns, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and that's in my book uh uh From Chalkball to Neon Knights, my DJ years, about my early years, and it's got lots of fascinating stories in there as well about problems of hell's angels in in Dean Mark and all the different characters you meet. But like I say, it shows my transition from because you asked me about the why I reason I mentioned this, you asked me about pre-18. It's it shows you my history before that from 15 to get how I got to where I wanted to go and where where the career started chopping and changing to different parts of the entertainment industry, and like I say, so my my main thing is I just say just go and do it, have the nerve to do it, or if you can't do it, learn about it through books, and there's a lot more places to learn your knowledge these days. Don't just it's all well or good to learn from your mistakes, as people like to do from time to time. That's all right. It's good to learn from mistakes, but you don't want to keep on making mistakes and and um having a mental breakdown, you know. So it's better just to at some point to start doing it things differently.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's uh that's a solid piece of advice that coupled together with the the idea of just not being afraid, you know. Um it's the easiest thing in the world to just be afraid of something and to not be. You know, it takes courage, right? And you're you're a fine example of that in many in many many different paths that you've walked throughout your life thus far, you know. Um Russell, thank you so much for joining me here today. I really, really appreciate your insight. Thank you uh for everything that you do and you continue to do. Uh good luck with all your projects, your ideas, and uh and thank you for joining me. It's much appreciated.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, thanks for having me on, Johnny.

SPEAKER_00:

Wow, what a dude. I tell you, guys, I could have sat there for like uh half a day and just carried on talking to Russell and asking him questions and understanding more and more about him. There are so many facets to his career and there are so many layers to him as a person. He's fascinating, he's a pioneer, he's a creator, he's a visionary, he's an artist, he's many things, and uh it was a pleasure to have him on the podcast this week. Uh, I hope you enjoyed that, everybody. Have a great day. Until next time, may the force be with you.

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Jonny Amos

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